certin speaker makers harder to get dissounts fro

Cjlcapp, you have clearly touched a nerve! I have wrestled with the ideas at the core of your question for some time. The answer for you will be of course be your own, but it's encouraging to see such differing points offered for consideration. In fact, the emotion displayed in this thread shows that we take this seriously.

On that thought, I offer my own view. Lush, I agree with you. Krelldog, I disagree but I see where you are coming from.

The litmus test for me is found through intention. If your intention is to buy from a brick and mortar, then taking their resources is potentially an equitable transaction. If, however, your intention is to take their resources without buying, you have in fact stolen.

This is obviously a moral thing, and I don't pretend to take the high road easily. Anyone else have the same view?

CJ, sorry if the litmus test seemed directed at you. I offer it as a counter to some of the posts above from other responders. Also, you made it clear in your post that you are new to the hobby and trying to figure out how to proceed. I don't like sounding high and mighty here, but there are so many views in the above threads that counter my own experience that I thought it best to offer another side.

In short, to some responders above a key component of "value" is the price they pay relative to MSRP. I suggest that you don't get hung up on that definition of value at such an early stage in this hobby. What I have found is that a really good dealer is worth alot more than they usually charge. Their charge being the difference between what I could pay from the lowest price alternative vs in their store.

Let me give you an example. My local 2channel shop has been in business nearly 40 years and is the last 2channel shop in our metro area. I went in last year to see if he had a Sony SACD player as I was hot to get one. He didn't have one but he acquainted himeself with me and my goals and said I may be interested in another product he carried. I borrowed the piece he suggested for the weekend. I brought it back the following week and ordered one from him that actually cost 3 times more than the loaner. I have since purchased many more items from the same manufacturer through this dealer. The kicker here is that I wouldn't know a thing about this manufacturer's products if the dealer hadn't been there to answer my questions and loan the product to me for the weekend. Now, when I buy from him I sometimes get discounts, but it's not the driving factor for the purchase.

On the flipside, I've bought on Agon after hearing things at shows and at friends. Doing so, I don't believe I am taking away business that I owe to my dealer. The difference is I didn't go to my dealer and listen and then say "if you don't give me a discount I'll buy elsewhere!" or some other ultimatum that puts his business at risk.

I am in a similar boat as you, in that $11k is alot to spend on anything audio, and I want to get a good deal like anybody. But, I don't want to sacrifice my values in the process.

This is a great hobby. Don't underestimate how much a good dealer can improve your enjoyment of it.

Oscar, buy from him at 5% off and be glad he helped you find what you are after. If it's not what you want, then don't agonize and move on.

You decide what is a good deal for you. That said, the above is my take.

Above all, enjoy.