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Center Channels sound crappy

Why do center channels sound so crappy with music?

This is something that absoilutly baffles me...

I was talking to a KEF rep at SoundTrack audio, he said it is becuase they are designed for dialogue more than anything else.
What im wondering, is why can alot of center channels only give marginal preformance with music?
My front KEF Q1's do a fantastic job creating a phantom center channel, the dialogue is crisp and clear. They do a fantastic job on music as well.

Wouldnt it make more sence to just get another KEF Q1 for $225.00 and use that as a center instead of paying 350 for a speaker that does great voice but crappy musical preformance?

I know it was not the "center channel" amp either, it is on a DENON 3803 and all channels are identical, i was playing it with the 5/7ch stereo mode and all the speakers sounded great for music but the center channel really really sucked..

i noticed this with my past DefTech setup as well...

has anybody done a serious comparison between a center channel and a monitor of the same brand with same drivers and heard any vast improvement with the center speak with dialogue?

does it have anything to do with sound dispersion?

----- Slappys disclaimer-----
It was not my intent to offend anybody with the above post, im genuinly curious and hope it does not offend anybody becuase that is clearly not the intent. If so, please reffer to "My Apologies" thread which explains more.
------------------------------

THANKS IN ADVANCE
slappy

Showing 7 responses by eldartford

eldartford
4,262 posts
 
For music you should definitely get a matching speaker for the center. (I speak from 30 years of center channel experience). Although good speakers will image so well that it is sometimes hard to tell if the center is working or not, having the center speaker permits wider spacing of the Left and Right for a broad soundstage.

However it is also true that a speaker with limited and/or shaped frequency response will make dialog more inteligible.
Ideally you would have an elcheapo dialog speaker that you can switch in just for movies.

Oh, and by the way, you are forgiven. Go, my son, and sin no more.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
david berry...Today most people drive their center channel using a SS processor, which, as you say, involves digital processing. However, digital processing is not absolutely necessary. My optimum way of getting a center channel is to drive one channel of a stereo amplifier out of phase, and bridge the amp with the center speaker. This was very easy to do with an LP source, simply by reversing the pickup connections of one channel. Usually with this system, the center speaker seems a bit too loud, but this is very easily corrected by a "blend" pot bridged across the two signals at the preamp output. With 4 ohm speakers you probably have a low impedance problem for your power amp, but in my experience even relatively low power amps can handle 8 ohm speakers without difficulty.

Of course, if you are playing a CD the signals are already digital, and if you feed digital into the SS processor, so that no extra A/D is done, your Center channel ought to be just as good as the Left and Right.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
edesilver...When playing stereo source material it is true that if your speakers image well, and you can sit in the right place you can't tell if the center speaker is playing or not...even if you walk up to it and put your ear near it (at least with Magneplanars). Even with stereo source material, the center channel has some benefits in a broader and more stable (less sensitive to listener position) soundstage.

However, when you are dealing with multichannel source material, matrix or discrete, the center channel carries sounds (especially dialog) that are greatly attenuated or completely missing from the Left and Right channels. If you play multichannel material with the center turned off you are missing something.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Edesilva...I think we have a semantics problem. When I say "center" I mean where the thing is located, and when you say "center" you mean a particular design of speaker. For music I use, and advocate a center (located) speaker that is identical to the others. I agree that speakers designed for dialog in a HT set up (which may work well for that purpose) are poor for music.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Mborner...Semantics again! I took "phantom" to mean the sound image that occurs naturally between two good speakers that play the same sound, and which can be very convincing. I think that a better word for what you describe would be "synthesized".
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Mborner...If this "redirection" was not being done, center channel info would be missing. In other words, if you were set up for 5 channels, and the speaker wire fell off the center front speaker, something would be missing.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Avguygeorge...30 years? I have been using a center speaker (same model as left and right) ever since I moved into my house in 1961. The living room has two french doors in the wall, and the doors are right where stereo speakers would go. This leaves three narrow pieces of wall. Speakers on the left and right wall sections would be too far apart, but a third speaker in the center solves the problem.

Even further back in time, say 1947, a "High End" system that I heard often (was forced to listen to) had two speakers, positioned as we do now for stereo, although the program was only mono.
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