Thank you Mike, I couldn't have said it better myself. This is not the place for personal attacks. I look forward to your posts on other topics. |
You guys are getting a bit cranky lately. For most of us our interest in music began with the records our parents played or the songs we heard on the radio. These sources were usually barbaric by todays' standards. I had a cheap Emerson console and my best friend had a Macintosh amp and preamp. His high fidelity system was instrumental in training my ears to appreciate good quality audio. Strangely enough some recordings were much more effective at producing an emotional response to the music when played on my parents' console. So.. Higher fidelity does not always equal deeper enjoyment of music. The CD format has been besieged by complaints from audiophiles from the beginning. What a waste of time. I was fortunate to hear the first CD player before public demonstrations and was startled by its realism despite its first generation shortcomings. We have enjoyed this elegant format for 20 years now. Now that we are beginning to see the end of vinyls superiority the same types of people are doing the same thing. Nag, nag, nag, nag. The prospect of high resolution audio and video in a universal player is near and I for one can't wait. It is only a matter of time until science finds a way to clearly better the sound quality of vinyl at a far lower cost than a high end turntable rig with virtually indestructable software. I really wonder if all of the vinyl enthusiasts think they are enjoying the music more because of the analogue format when they are really enjoying the quality of thir systems and not the music. I can appreciate aesthetics as much as the next guy but this sounds like a classic car collector who enjoys looking at his collection but doesn't have quite as much fun driving around anymore. Digital will win in the end. Don't mourn the loss of the horse and buggy. Try www.tweakaudio.com (audio news) And a good time was had by all, Martin Butler Matin Butler |
Carl, lighten up. I think you've just won the worlds longest analogy award. You have no idea what I may have heard or not heard. If you and your 917 took a pit stop you might have noticed I was saying that at this time vinyl may be superior, but at the current speed of advancement in audio technology not for much longer. If you think that is silly remember the shock of those horse and buggy owners when they had to send old Sally to the glue factory and couldn't couldn't get jack for their old rig. Martin |
In the interest of moving on, I will say that when Carl sticks to the subject he is interesting and well informed, even if he is outspoken. But, big boys don't have to resort to insults to make their point. This only serves to undermine the spirit of this site and then the only thing thing pumped into the discussion is venom. I would welcome his input again if he can return to the subjects and refrain from unnecessary hostility. |
Garfish, The crispness that you are noticing is probably a slight loss of bass in the transfer therefore the mids and treble are more noticable. I experience the same sort of thing when going from CD to Minidisk. Yes the quality is impressive. I had a recording studio for 10 years and it is amazing how inexpensive a decent recording is today when compared to ten years ago. |
Carl, You still haven't gotten the point, we have no problem taking the heat or sticking up for ourselves, we just don't want someone burning down the house. We didn't complain about your opinion just your tasteless personal attacks. How about posting your opinions again without them. I vote we close the subject and move on to the interesting stuff and end this soap opera. |
Hi Albert, interesting camera story, but CD technology has had 20 years to mature and unless i'm mistaken, digital cameras are only beginning to make their presence felt. I have been lisening to a VAT amp with a Theta transport, DCS upsampling and Avalon speakers lately not the $150 CD players you mentioned. I also listen to a Sony cdp-CA9ES 5 disc CD changer through a Denon AVR-5700 , Monitor Audio speakers with a REL sub, Sony DVD-S7700 for Home Theater and background music for dinner. I loathe the Sony CD player but it was the only one that remembers programming for 172 discs. Does anyone know of a better CD player that retains programming? or is it worth hot rodding it? After working in the best recording studios in New York for 27 years I think I have a good idea what a master tape sounds like. I have not had as much experience with Vinyl gear as you have and agree with your opinion that today analogue does achieve superior sound when played through very high end systems. I think that the upcoming universal players (CD,SACD,DVD-A,) have the potential to equal or better the high end analogue systems at one fifth the price. I have heard both the CD and LP of recording sessions that I have participated in and the CD resembled the original event more accurately on a variety of good systems. I am still new to this type of forum and may not be as familiar with as many components as Carl and I am relly enjoying hearing about the speakers and CD players he is familiar with. I would appreciate your help with cable and speaker upgrades in my post about the AVR 5700. |
Sorry about the typos. The amp is VAC renaissance 70 Conrad Johnson Premier 16LS preamp, DCS Delios and Purcell, Avalon Opus spkrs, Synergistic designer reference cable and Bybee power conditioner. |
Hi Garfish, Thanks for the info. Can the jitterbug go to the Denon and use its Burr/Brown DACs and still sound as good as your set up with the Muse DAC? Have you heard the Sony SACD yet? |
Hi Garfish and everyone else, I haven't had enough time with all this gear to be 100% certain of my evaluations but I will attempt a short preliminary report. WOW! The sound does not sound like the master in the playback room of a studio, it sounds like you are directly in the same room with the musicians. I know this is a bit general but the best I can say is that the energy of the performance is palpable. I'm not kidding. I know the feeling of playing with other musicians and how there is an unspoken communication that writers call interplay, but there is a certain kind of anticipation that is communicated from musician to musician that tells you what the other player is about to do and with the DCS gear I could actually anticipate the drummers next moves before they happened. I don't have the budget to buy at this level myself yet. A friend has given me access to his system and he is often not at home for extended periods of time. This is why I am looking forward to a universal player that will approach this level of quality between $2000 and $5000. I think this won't be happening for another year or two. As far as software availability, we'll see. One of these new formats will eventually be widely available. When I bought my first DVD player there were only a few DVDs' around. No one knew if the format would succeed. Now I go to Tower Video and rent thousands of titles for $2. I believe that SACD or DVD-A will be as successful. I can wait a while to let the first few generations work out the bugs. |
Hi Carl, I'm lucky enough to have a few friends with second homes and get invited frequently to Upstate NY, The Berkshires near Tanglewood and Fla. I go to London about once every 5 years to see family. I must admit for many, many years I couldn't be dragged off the island of Manhattan, but my fiance` is slowly curing my wicked ways. At 18 I signed with Mercury records to do a few Rock and Roll albums. My first demo was done at Bell Sound studios before it was closed. That is where Buddy Holly did his recording here. I was managed by some of the same people that managed Jimi Hendrix and my second studio experience was in Electric Lady studios in Studio B using Jimis' actual amplifiers (talk about if these walls could talk). I did my first album at Plaza Sound. It is on the top floor of Radio City Music Hall. The Rocketts dressing room was down the corridor.WOW! I drifted into jingle writing and producing for 10 years after that.The spots I worked on won a Cleo and other awards. I had to become adept at different styles of music and my tastes were growing. I once had to conduct multiple tracks of a string section made up of the finest players from the major NY orchestras. I struggled to keep up with them but everything went well. I discontinued producing and began teaching music privately due to poor health. I have been operating at a slower pace for a while now but hope to get up to normal speed again soon. The equipment you mentioned was exactly the type of equipment I used in many sessions. I used to like the older Harrison soundboards a lot. Usually I let the engineers set up a few different mikes for a session and picked the one that sounded best in that particular room. Sometimes I combined mikes. I had my own small recording studio for the lower budget commercials. I chose the Neumann mikes most of the time. I enjoyed growing in experience as a producer but I couldn't continue to sing about potato chips forever, even if the money was good. I have heard and appreciate some audiophile type recordings but I was of the mind that if a $90 mike got it better than a $4000 mike in the given situation I chose interesting sound first. BTW I was at Sound by Singer recently and the head of DCS was there with the president of Straight Wire. He told me that it many ways the design of the Sony SACD players was based on the Elgar Ring technology. He said that the cost to develope the Elgar would have been too high for any other company but that the Elgar was based on the work of the scientists who developed the British intelligence national security system. They started developing the DCS system as an offshoot of their intelligence work. Talk about a NY minute! I hope this bit of background info helps to introduce me to all of the regular participants here. I am happy to be in the same "room" with so many experienced and fun people. Here's hoping to find you all happy and well. Bye for now. |
In most studios there are Lexicon Reverbs and Yamaha reverbs,( some even had a plate in the ground or a feed to the hallways). When I bought the Yamaha DSPA-1 (recently sold) I recognized some of the DSPs' as the reverb settings from their $10,000 reverb units! Now you can buy a DSP-A1 fot $1200 and get better sound fields than many studios have. In the same way, I hope the expensive SACD format will become the everyday format in the near future. *Carl, I will try to listen to one of the high end turntables at Singer Sound in the next few weeks if it can be arranged. I saw one in their biggest room that cost $20,000.In that same room I listened to the JMLab Utopias $70,000, with two enormous Krell amps, $120,000 each and although it was impressive in some ways it did not move me at all. The two other people listening with me agreed that they were a bit dull! Can you imagine, over $300,000 worth of gear and it sounded boring. We stepped into the next room and put on Ricki Lee Jones' "Horses" album (DDD,..digital all the way) using almost the same system as described in the earlier post,(DCS, Delios, Purcell,Avalons, Conrad Johnson etc. This was expensive gear but it didn't require a mortgage just a big loan and it blew the doors off of that other system. I guess it takes some serious money to get up to the highest end but it is a lot of fun to try to get as close as possible to that benchmark on a budget, by choosing the right combination of equipment. I wish that I was nearby some of you and could participate in a listening session or two.* Vinyl guys, with the higher end systems you have does record wear present significant problems? |
Carl, How many times can you play an LP before it shows signs of wear under the best circumstances? I remember them losing some of the higher frequencies after a few plays on a fairly decent rig. |
Amazing response there Gerrym. Who would have thought anyone would have such personal experience regarding a maintenance product like Armor All. I won't use it again. Funny, I used to have some hand painted leather cushions on a 50s' chair. Occasionally I would put Armor All on to shine it a bit. Over the years it did show signs of drying. I don't know if this was due to my youthful lack of furniture maintenance expertise or the Armor All, but now I have my suspicions. Carl, I will eventually check out a state of the art high end vinyl rig in order to be a better participant, but I will remain a digital user and be happy that there are those of you unwilling to settle for anything but the best sound available, keeping some magazine writers on their toes and not letting big companies get away with too much hype. |
Carl, I wouldn't call spraying a dash of Armor All on a cushion stupid. At the time I wasn't certain it was leather and thought it was probably vinyl, besides at 20 years old when a girl was coming over any minute I would use just about anything to clean up a bit when rushing. I would love to buy a decent CD player now, but I feel that I can live with my Sony DVD-S7700 and my CDP-CA9 ES until multi- format SACD,DVD-A players become available. Do you think that Vibra Pods would help a bit? Have you heard Harmonic Technology cables? |
Hi Garfish, Carl, sorry if I can't act on every suggestion but I do value your opinion and am impressed with your experience with so many products. I am most interested in The Harmonic Tech. coax. I am also curious about the Truthlink. I need something that leans toward forgiving. Garfish, there seems to be conflicting opinions regarding Vibrapods, I would most likely want to try something under my DVD player first, CD player second. Carl, Are AQ little feet expensive? |
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Hi guys, I heard the Sony SCD-777ES today. There was a distruptive noise nearby the listening room so I could not thoroughly audition them, but it was still an enlightening experience. My first impression was that this was almost it!...The Holy Audio Grail. Remember, that this is a Sony product and although they certainly are one of the better manufacturers and innovators they usually end up not making the best machine. The superior Pioneer DVD players are an example that comes to mind. The standard CD aspect of the SCD-777ES is very good but not as good as some, it has a little bit of that Sony digital hardness. The SACD is another story, it is remarkable. I could pick out few minor critiscisms, but no matter what improvements they could make to it, there is an almost spooky realism, unlike anything I have heard before. In my opinion it truly does combine the bests aspects of digital and analogue. If they improve the format and recording techniques I believe there is enough of what people love about high end audio to please just about everyone. I heard this with the new Macintosh amp and preamp and the Vienna Acoustics Mahlers. Hope you all get a chance to hear one soon. |
