I own a cdr 630. I would highly recommend you purchase a professional unit. Forget the consumer models. This way you can use computer grade cd's and don't have to worry about SCMS! There are several good units out there. Marantz, HHB, Tascam and Fostex to name a few. You can usually buy them at discount prices through various pro-audio dealers. Take my word for it, this is the way to go!!! |
I agree with ranstl. Seek out an HHB pro unit. It's based on a Pioneer unit but has all the pro connections & defeatable scms. It doesn't copy hdcd. I have an HHB 880 (the previous model) and it's fantastic. |
Hi Ramstl & Hifigy, Thanks for you info it's greatly appreciated. Donjf. |
I don't want to start a big contentious controvery re: CD recorders-- just state MY opinion. I looked really close at HBB, but ended up purchasing a "consumer grade" Pioneer W739 CD recorder BECAUSE it had the SCMS system built in, as I wanted some money from each consumer audio CD I purchased to go to the recording artist(s). It's my understanding that's how the SCMS works, ie to protect the performers from totally losing out when CDs are copied essentially free. I've been buying 30 CD-Rs for $40.-- which is only $1.33 per CD, and I don't consider that excessive. As to the Pioneer W739, it is a tremendously versatile recorder with a 3 CD drawer on the left and a record drawer on the right. It is truly a one touch recorder and copy quality is excellent. I can't tell copies from originals. The W739 also makes a decent transport. .......Just a different perspective. Craig. |
Hi Craig, Thanks for your info and opinion.I was not aware that part of the price for the consumer audio cd went to artist(s).I agree with your opinion and hope the small amount of price difference makes it to the artist(s). |
All of my recordngs are made with either my own mastered recordings or from my own sources. I don't believe I should have to pay to record something I own. I don't believe in bootleging or advocate it. If you want the best recording possible you really need to buy a professional unit. If you feel quilty recording your already purchased source, I would suggest that you mail the 30 cents directly to the artist. Does anyone know how they determind who gets or how the money gets divided. Call me a bit skeptical but I bet it gets eaten up by corporate America and very little if any goes to the artist. How do they know I've recorded a 30 year old album of some dead artist. Oh, I am sure there are mystics looking at tea leaves and passing $10 and $20 to Howling Wolf in the after life. Or does it go to some fund set up for his family. If you believe this I have a bridge to sell you. Really, I believe the money goes directly to the big boys at Sony or Warner Brothers. Think about it. If anyone knows the truth please educate me. |
Hi Ram.. & Don..; I really meant it when I said that I didn't want to stir up a big controversy on this topic. In the course of researching CD recorders for purchase, I kept coming across references to the effect that a portion of the cost of consumer CD-Rs went back to the artist(s) under the SCFM system. I have no way of verifying these statements, and you have no way of disproving them. If nothing else, the SCFM system works in that it prevents wholesale copying and thus major piracy and sales. I choose not to be cynical and trust this information. I occasionally make 2 or 3 copies of a CD for use in my truck, portable use, sometimes for my daughter, or friends, but I really wanted the recorder to make compilations, eg a collection of music that exists nowhere else. It makes me feel a bit better to think that some of the consumer CD-R cost goes back to the recording artists or even the recording industry-- without them we'd have less or even no recorded music. I don't feel guilty about it, and "sending 30 cents to the artist" is, of course, sarcasm on your part, and I'm sorry if I made anyone feel defensive. Donjf said he only wanted to make copies of CDs-- like I do. It sounds like you use your professional CD recorder quite a bit differently than me, eg your own recordings, and putting old LPs onto CD-- honorable uses IMHO. If so, enjoy. As to quality of recording (CD to CD), I would be happy to compare the W739 copies with the "professional" copiers. Happy recording. Craig |
Hi Craig & Ram, Craig I agree with your opinion.I read a review from the Jan. issue of AUDIO on the HHB CDR-850 and it was very informative.The one thing I found very interesting is it stated that the sampling-rate converters are not always audibly transparent,however,and some CD recorders with such converters keep them in the circuit even when the incoming signal is already at 44.1kHz.This will,at the very least,change the data,and it may affect the sound.So it's a good thing the CDR-850 lets you bypass its sampling-rate converter when necessary.In fact,if your source recordings are always at 44.1 kHz,they recomended to just leave the sampling-rate converter off.Also has anyone used a Genesis digital lens anti-jitter unit between cd transport and CD recorder to see if it makes a better sounding copy.A interview in Audio Advisor with Paul McGowan stated he had a two CD's of same recording and one disc had more jitter.He then played it through the Lens and made a digital copy with a CD recorder.When he played the copy back through the Lens it sounded much better than the original factory-pressed CD.If interested I have two Lens(s).One I use between my McCormack SST-1 transport and Sonic Frontiers SFT-1 transport to Kimber Kable D60 digital cable to Camelot Technology Arthur V3.0 DAC.(still waiting for the Camelot upsampling 24/96 dac I ordered).Iplan on using other Lens with CD recorder and will let you know how it works if you would be interested. Don |
Hi Don; good point re: sample rate converters. I'm quite sure the Pioneer W739 also bypasses the SRC when the signal is 44.1. Craig |
Sorry if my comments seemed sarcastic. They were worded that way inorder to make a point. I truely meant it when Isaid mail it directly to the artist. Here is a better solution: Buy a professional unit and use consumer grade cds. However, I doubt the artist you recorded will ever see a penny. Also, you should check out the ad converters. Often times the consumer units are compromised. One way to solve this problem is to buy an external ad and by pass the units. There are several affordable units on the market. An added advantage to the pro unit is the flexibility of the inputs and out puts. You can use AES-EBU and lower jitter. Anyway, in my opinion you have the best options with a pro unit and you can always use consumer data. |
As a former member of ASCAP, signator for AFTRA, Mercury recording artist and producer I can guarantee you that if any money gets to an artist it is irrelevant by the time it is divided amongst all the artists. It is a scam. I received a total of...12 cents when an album I was on was #1 in 13 states,(many moons ago). This has not changed. Get the best copier you can. Good luck. |
Hi Bmp & Ramstl; Thanks for a "hands on", informed opinion. Our words have crossed before on this site Bmp, and I respect your observations and opinions on this subject. It seems that Ramstl's skepticism was well placed and I probably owe him an apology. So Ramstl, I hereby apologize. I based my buying decision, and recommendations, on articles I read in audio magazines, info. gleaned from the i-net, and of course advertising information. And although the HHB is undoubtedly a better built recorder (ie it's about twice as expensive), I will defend the Pioneer W739 based on its features and recording quality (I'm sure that in a blind test, I could not tell commercially made CDs from those made with the W739). Before I bought the W739, I tried a Pioneer 509 single drawer recorder that would not copy track information from my two out board Sony CD players. I was pretty frustrated and returned it. Then the W739 came out; it is a "dubbing" recorder, that has built in play and record sides, so it is completely self contained. A Three CD drawer on the left can be programmed in any way you want and recorded on the right side, or a single CD and CD-R can be dropped in and a "one touch" copy made-- neat. I rechecked, and the W739 digital out signal does bypass the sample rate converter when 44.1 (ie CDs) is used. Anyway, the features and versatility of this recorder were also big reasons I chose to go with a "dubbing" "consumer grade" CD recorder. I still stand by my assertion that recording quality of the W739 is excellent. As for SCMS, I suppose that it will have "some" impact in reducing wholesale digital copying, but if I wanted to go into CD copy sales, I would just buy a pro unit that didn't have it in the first place, and that could also use the cheaper computer CD-R blanks. I can see that fairly inexpensive pro copiers (and computer copying) are signicant loopholes in the SCMS (system). |
Hi Garfish, Good to hear from you and all who have posted here today. Thanks for all this interesting info. I will take a snapshot of this thread and save it for reference if ever I am looking to buy a CD recorder. That Pioneer sure seems like an intersting machine. I have the Denon MD-1000 minidisc recorder and find that it outclasses every other MD recorder, but that Pioneer sure is tempting. Bye for now. |
Garfish, there was no need for the apology. I can see how you might have mistaken my tone. In the past I have added my thoughts about this topic on like threads, however, to little avail. It appears that a few voices from the far can not compete with the loud corporate voice in control of the media. BMPNYC, I'm sincerely sorry to hear that what I feared was true. Somehow this information needs to be made available so that SCMS can be revealed as the SCAM that it is. It my circle of friends, SCMS is commonly known as SCAM. My final word on the subject is in agreement with BMPNYC, buy the best copier you can afford. Thanks for the mature conversation! |
.....I'm glad we're ending this thread on a pleasant note. I learned a few "real world" things, and good luck to Don. Thanks, Craig. |
Hi Bmpnyc, I'm sorry to hear that what I thought about the money possibly not making it to the artist was true.Thanks for the info.Also Craig,Ramstl and Hifigy thanks for the great info. sincerly, Don |
Hi to all that replied I finally purchased a HHB CDR-800 and it performs great. Thank You & have a Happy New Year! Don. |
Donjf; nice of you to resurrect this thread and tell us the directon you took. Enjoy. Craig |
Garfish your welcome and appreciate your input. Have a Happy New Year. Thank You. Don |
