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Cayin vs. Antique Sound Labs

I am lucky enough to have a Cayin ta-30 and ASL AQ1003DT. I have challenged them both by running them through Thiel 3.5s (inefficient). The ASL ran the Theils with depth and great imaging. The speakers were loud enough to fill a 18' x 28' room (but not to concert levels). Voice and instrumentals were stunning. On the other hand, the Cayin lost it's depth and I had a hard time seperating Norah Jones from her band. The Cayin also began to become one dimensional after 10:00 on the vol. knob. I ran the same JJ E34Ls through both to try and be fair. Has anyone else had an issue with the Cayin not opening up the soundstage with inefficient speakers?

I know these amps were not designed for these speakers but it says a lot for the ASL to clearly outperform one of the most positively reviewed tube amps the last few months. One thing the Cayin does have is build quality and looks (even with the tube cage on). It was an easy sell to the wife! The ASL looks nice but not thrilling. I was really hoping to use the Cayin in my main system. Does anyone have a suggestion for efficient speakers for the Cayin that will really show what this amp can do? FYI - Paul from Bizzy Bee is outstanding to work with and answered all of my Cayin questions (even though I didn't buy the amp from him)!
buda

Showing 1 response by mrkidknow

mrkidknow
26 posts
 
I think the real question is "Why are you wasting time and money engaging in trying to match the wrong amplifier with the wrong speaker?"

Thiels are notoriously well known for being very inefficient speakers. Thiels need high current to get them to perform. Tube amps do not provide lots of current relative to solid state. I had to dig deep on the internet to find the specs on the CS3.5 and here is what I found:

S/N = 89 dB at 1 Watt-meter
Impedence = 4 Ohms
Recommended RMS driving power = 50 - 250 Watts

The recommended RMS driving power says it all; 30-35 Watts is not enough. I could not find information on whether the impedence rolls off excessively low in the bass range but if it does, that's another strike against using tube amps.

I have found that S/N data is not a very good measure of rating a speaker's efficiency. What is relevant is the recommended power to drive them (and knowing if the impedence rolls-off too low to be safe on tube amps).

I own a fully modded Cayin TA-30 with the factory Valve Art EL34s and 12AU7s (unknown Chinese brand). The Electro Harmonix 12AX7s were replaced with NOS Telefunken 12AX7s. The Telefunkens significantly improved the imaging of this amp vs. the EH 12AX7s. The amp is driving a pair of Infinity Reference Studio Monitors (RSMs) which have the following specs:

S/N = 88 dB at 1 Watt-meter (some publications claim 86 and 87)
Impedence = 4 Ohms
Recommended RMS driving power = 30 - 250 Watts

I have no problems filling a 14' x 16' room to very loud levels with this amp/speaker combo. The RSMs look more inefficient when using S/N ratings but its the recommended power that shows the RSM is much more efficient. I may be hearing some of the distortion you are describing once the volume hits the 12 O'clock setting but by that point, it's too loud anyways.

I do tip my hat to the ASL AQ1003DT at doing a better job than the Cayin on your Thiels. However, the bottom line is don't waste time and money pairing the wrong amp with the wrong speaker; you're just asking for a fried driver or amp component (and dissappointing sound as seen with the TA-30).

Mr. Kidknow
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