You could try a JICO SAS stylus for your Technics MM cartridge. Old SAS has Boron cantilever, NEO SAS can be Ruby or Sapphire SAS (Super Analogue Stylus) is a huge upgrade for 205c mk3 Have you ever tried it ? Do you know anything about this option ? For my old Technics 205c mk3 the SAS (Boron) was superb. But on 205c mk4 i prefered the original stylus. You have to try SAS, the price is just about $350-450
currently just have a Technics SL15 with a P205CMK3. I’d like to get something that is higher end around $1K that dramatically improves my setup.
Do you mean just $1k for a cartridge and turntable ? I think you have a nice DD turntable and all you need is a better tonearm and maybe a better cartridge (if you don’t want just to try SAS stylus). In my opinion JICO SAS will change a lot. But what is your tonearm now ? |
I have 2 Technics SL15s w exact same cartridge in both ( no idea on which tone arm) whatever the box came with at the time suspecting . I notice that both tables produce distortion i believe mainly on the left side only , they may just need to be adjusted to get the stylus to press harder but it’s annoying ! Or your SAS upgrade may be a good option for my SL15s ...weird , I always have heard the Technics P205CMK3 were one of the better carts for that table ....thanks for your help!
I'm sorry, i thought you have SP15 , but you have SL15 with Linear Tracking toneam and P-Mount cartridge. JICO SAS is not available for P-MOUNT version of the P205cmk3. Anyway, your compact SL-15 is an interesting turntable, i always wanted to buy one, but with mk4 version of that cartridge. The problem with automatic turntable is the service, i hope you can find someone who can service your SL-15, maybe our jpjones in NYC can do that ? If this turntable is refurbished by professional then it normally cost over $1k in good cosmetic condition. I think it's amazing turntable and i want one. Do you like the new Technics series of DD turntables? As for the cartridge at $1k there are many options, but you have to buy a cartridge for the tonearm. If your tonearm is not superheavy or not superlight then mid compliance cartridge is fine. |
Technics SL-15 is such cool looking DD turntable, the size is exactly like the LP sleeve, the weight is 6.6kg, there is a build-in pre-preamp for MC cartridges! The price in the 1981 was 150 000 YEN ! Here is a video of this beast in action. "The Technics is a high-tech Direct Drive linear-tracking turntable. It automatically plays the record selections you want and skips the ones you don’t. It completely eliminates tracking error and is so advanced it can even play upside down. The SL-15’s microcomputer and infrared optical sensor let you play up to 10 cuts per side, in any order. Just press the program keys in the order of the selections you want to hear. And with the repeat button, the SL-15 can repeat the entire program or any selection. The SL-15 performs virtually any function, automatically. It accurately selects the record size and speed, finds the lead-in groove and begins playback at the touch of a button. More proof of the SL-15’s accuracy is its quartz-locked, direct-drive motor and dynamically balanced, linear-tracking tonearm. In addition to tracking perfectly, the SL-15 plays a record as accurately upside down as it does right side up. The whole body of the truntable is made of precision aluminium diecast upper and lower interlocking cabinet halves. The same build quality can be found also in the Technics SL-10" @lewm I think it’s standard P-Mount cartridge, if the suspension is OK then it is a great MM cartridge with Hollow Pipe Boron cantilever, nude diamond mounted through the tiny hole made in Boron cantilever (laser etched) as seen on this picture. I’ve seen many P-Mount versions of our favorite MM cartridges included Stanton top models. So it shouldn’t be a problem to find a cartridge for this turntable. Audio-Technica also made P-mount cartridges. @tommypenngotti find someone who can service your SL-15 and try another cartridge if the one you have caused some problems. It must be a great turntable if the price in 1981 was so high (150 000 YEN in Japan). |
You can just buy this brand new Technics SL1500c that coming later this year. The best design in my opinion. There is a built-in phono stage as i can see in the press-release ? " Las Vegas, NV, United States, 7 January 2019 – Technics today unveiled the new SL-1500C Premium Class Direct Drive Turntable System. The SL-1500C inherits the brand’s high-end sound quality concept and adds a host of original Technics technologies, such as a coreless direct drive motor and high-- sensitivity tonearm. To simplify the playing of analogue records, the built-in Phono EQ connects to a wide variety of devices. The SL-1500C also comes equipped with a high-quality Ortofon 2M Red phono cartridge. The SL-1500C is a complete turntable system designed for a wide range of users, even outside of strictly dedicated audio enthusiasts." |
Re-tipping Technics cartridges is a very bad idea, refurbishing it with a different cantilever is a completely waste of money. I don’t want to start all over again, it’s all on this forum and anyone can search for it. Andy destroyed jpjones cartridge, Axel refurbished mine for Foxtan from whom i bought it "as the original" (he cheated me) and later when i compared refurbished cart with original the original was so much better (day and night difference).
Easily buy another cartridge if you have a problem with Technics cartridge, the AT-ML180 is much better than Technics 205c mk4. Or LOMC if you wish to.
SoundSmith does not guarantee a possibility of re-tipping Technics, i asked him ones. For any re-tipper it is more "like a project", they can do that maybe, or maybe they can destroy your cartridge. This is a very expensive and too complicated job. Actually original cartridge is always better, much better to invest more money in better cartridge. After all the P205mk3 is not so special as the mk4. |
BTW what is the official price for ART9 factory RETIP or REFURBISH ?
Is it possible or nobody cares when buying them ? |
The SL-15 uses a p-mount cartridge, of which your choices are severely limited to conical and bonded elliptical moving magnet designs. Not at all. Simply find an amazing P-Mount cartridges designed by Stanton back in the 70s/80s with Nude Stereohedron styli on them, they are high compliance. What’s wrong with MM design? Stanton made low impedance and low output LZS version of their top on the line MM too, those carts are Moving Magnet but works with MC phono stage or headamp. |
I tried messing with my Technics P205CMKlll last night , adjusted the Stylus pressure , took off the cart and cleaned , something is not tracking correctly . I put on Donald Fagen The Nightfly and on track 1 ok LP it is right off the bat having trouble tracking , distorted and as the song progresses it cleans up ... @tommypenngotti This cartridhe has very tall nude diamond, look at my picture, if you can’t see it when you clean the stylus then your diamond is damaged. At the same time this cartridge ALWAYS has supension problem, it’s a lowrider, almost lay down on the record surface when suspension is bad even at 1.2g tracking force. If you have something like that forget it, no one will be able to repair suspension without completely replacing a cantilever. In this scenario you’d be better with another genuine cartridge, look for the Stanton P-Mount models from this catalog for example. Stanton Stereohedron stylus is amazing. Your turntable need servicing by professional, on youtube you can find videos about it. If you have P-mount adaptor then you could try your Technics cartridge on conventional tonearm to make sure about suspension (but it make sense only if the diamond is exactly like on my picture, not damaged or destroyed). @melm Most people in the US, I think, buy gray market and a retip deal through AT is not available to them.
The independent retippers, like SoundSmith, can be contacted for their possible deals on an AT Art-9. I expected this answer, but it is absolutely make no sense to buy a brand new model of the japanese cartridge from AT to retip it with thirdparty vendor in USA with different diamond etc. Again: this is a brand new cartridge with full support from the manufacturer in Japan. If you buy through local authorized dealer you can inquire there. In the US, the dealer is LP Gear.
The cartridge is more widely distributed through dealers in Europe and Japan. This is much better. I’m just curious about AT policy when it comes to retip, but i’m not interested in buyin’ ART-9. But i think for potential buyers it must be №1 question (to get full support from the manufacturer). |
@melm Mr. Carr sells cartridges and retips. He sells HIS cartridges and retips. SoundSmith is a competitor. They sell cartridges and retips of their cartridges and other people’s cartridges, including those of Carr. So what? Jonathan Carr is the most knowledgeable people on this forum and his honest comments on audiogon does not rise up his sales. He gave us the explnanation as a cartridge designer, sorry if you don’t get it. Peter Ledermann, the proprietor of SoundSmith, will happily give all of the considerations of which he’s aware about his services. Positive and negative. He often appears in these types of forums and provides what he knows. He does that WITHOUT disparaging the work and product and business ethics of competitors. He will answer emails; he will get on the phone with customers. His work on a variety of cartridges has been given great praise on forums like this one. Peter Ledermann is one of the best retippers and a designer of SoundSmith cartridges, in every single video he clearly explain how inferior is every MC design compared to MI design. Think about it as a nice marketing too. Sure, he will ansrew emails, this is a good business, we need a person like him to get broken cartridges back to life (especially the vintage ones with no support from the manufacturer) or to upgrade low cost cartridge with better parts (to change alluminum cantilever to ruby or boron, to change spherical tip to linecontact etc). But when it comes to a high-end cartridges like the ART-9 retipped/refurbished by him with third party parts, it does not mean to be better than the original cartridges designed by some other genious (we have many great cartridge designers). Still the unanswered question: What EXACTLY does Audio Technica offer by way of after-sales service to those purchasing from an authorized dealer? Is LP Gear an authorized dealer? If a US resident buys from a Japanese authorized dealer can he expect after-sales service? Does Audio Technica offer retips? If so, what is the cost? I am not from USA. If you buy from Japanese dealer you have to deal with Japanese dealer (i did, no problem). If you buy from US dealer you ask them to help you about any issue, including "repair" or "upgrade programm " , you name it (i did it, no problem, great support). Some manufacturers actually provides factory retip or refurbish by the original cartridge designer. @gibsonian AT doesn’t retip but if you send in your old cart they sell you same model at a reduced price or you can upgrade as well. Either way you save bucks, I think it is around 50 or 60% of new cost. Thanks for your comment, so they are exactly like ZYX in Japan. The only difference is that the price for ZYX can be $5000, but the price for AT ART9 is $1000 and when you send them your broken or worn cartridge you pay 40% less (about $600) - this is amazing deal if it’s true. Because you will get the original brand new cartridge for $600 and this is the Audio-Technica sound, not a SoundSmith or whatever sound. It means your next ART-9 is much cheaper than from grey market dealers. This is absolutely amazing, what is the reason to pay $350-650 to SoundSmith if you can get brand new factory sealed ART-9 for $600 ? Correct me if i’m wrong. |
@melm The lowest price for a brand new ART-9 from japanese shops is about $800-900 if i remember correct, i'm pretty sure the japanese shop are official dealers, some of them can sell internationally (some will never do that). If you're buyin' a cartridge to use it for a long time, i think, saving $300 on grey market sample is not worth it (i did that by saving much more and regret it after all, but it wasn't the ART9). When you're buyin from the official distributor you have full support, even if your cartridge is accidentaly damaged or simply require stylus retip when the stylus is worn, they can do that in Japan at Audio-Technica. I'm not sure about AT policy regarding this particular model, this is why i am asking. If the factory retip is possible this is the best you can do when you need it. If the cantilever is damaged and you must have to replace it with a new cantilever you can only do that (equally) in Japan at Audio-Technica. If you prefer to service all the cartridges at SoundSmith or any other experienced vendor then, i hope, you understand that it is ONLY a compromise, but definitely not the best solution. Why? Let me quote J.Carr (Lyra cartridge Designer) below:
To retip a cartridge that was originally equipped with a stylus made by one manufacturer with one made by a different manufacturer is like rebuilding a Porsche engine with Jaguar pistons and crankshaft - the components used for rebuilding may be of high quality, but the design philosophy is rather different from the original.
Still, as one poster wrote above, changing only the stylus will alter the sound less than if the cantilever material is changed. When a cartridge is designed, the designer will consider the moving mass (sum of the stylus, cantilever and coils), the resonant character of the cantilever, and the (sonic) propagation velocity of the cantilever (affected by the cantilever's mass and rigidity), then choose the suspension and dampers accordingly. If you change the cantilever material, you are effectively throwing the original designer's calculations away.
There is much more (far more than what I have written above) to rebuilding a cartridge than affixing a new stylus or altering the cantilever. In over 30 years of involvement in the phono cartridge industry, I have not seen one retipper who has presented the entire story, who has effectively said "Here are the all of the considerations. Here are the cons as well as the pros. Make a wise choice that is best for you".
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@tommypenngotti Another one for you to verify the diamond, ufortunately i don’t have a pictures of the stylus for mk3 model, but the one i got is for mk4 model (p-mount has the same stylus profile and size). Maybe your stylus tip is damaged, indeed. You need some magnification to make sure, or inspection by the professional (it cost about $60). P.S. Don’t send it do Andy, because this is the guy who destroyed very rare cartridge for our experienced member jpjones, and refused to refund the money, never send Technics cartridges to him. Raul has no idea what he’s talking about. If you need an inspection just send to SoundSmith if you’re in USA |
@tommypennygotti anyone know how to post photos in the response area ?? You have to upload your photos somewhere like facebook, twitter for example, when they are uploaded open the phono and click on the mouse (right button) and select "copy image address". Then you can simpy add this link here or to make it looks better just select any word in your text and click the right button with a chain icon in the audiogon response window here, add link, click ok and it’s done. |
@j_damon
LP gear offered me an replacement for an ART-9 for under $500.00 Does that mean you got the ART-9 from them and now under they will replace your old worn one with a new one from AT in Japan just for $500 ? If so... this is what i call "full support" from the official distributor. |
