Cartridge recommendation for classical listening

@atmasphere Ralph, his version of Sumiko is HOMC, not LOMC. 

@nandric Nikola, if i remember correct you owned Clear Audio Virtuoso 

I don’t think i can use a moving coil, because the output level of my vintage Conrad-Johnson preamp is Low and designed for moving magnet.

Many people just missed the point that you phono stage is MM only.

When dealer can swap cartridge with no loss for the buyer it is nice. They got their margin anyway and you must be happy after all. Give it a try and get Virtuoso instead of HOMC Sumiko, at least Virtuoso is MM and your phono stage is MM only (47k Ohm).

If you have to choose between those two cartridges from your dealer then get Virtuoso and tell us about your experience with this MM after your experience with HOMC.

Must be interesting process. 

Here is what you like:
Grado Reference Sonata1 Phono Cartridge Specifications:

- Type: Moving Iron
- Output voltage: 5mV
- Frequency response: 10Hz - 60kHz
- Load impedance: 47k ohms
- Channel separation: 40dB
- Stylus type: Nude elliptical
- Stylus replacement: Factory replaceable
- Mounting: 1/2 inch
- Compliance: 20mm/N
- Tracking force: .075 - 2.0 g
- Recommended tracking force: 1.5 g
- Weight: 6.5 g

You could try another Induced magnet (IM) cartridge, but without that notorious Grado HUM problem, for example the ADC TRX II with Sapphire cantilever and much better Vital III stylus tip. This is a high compliance cartridge. Look for NOS samples, actually with your budget withing $1k you could buy two great MM or MI cartridges. 

I have Grado XTZ myself and many other cartridges in my collection are more refined than Grado signature XTZ. 

I believe for a classical music you need a high-ish compliance cartridge with high resolution guaranteed by refined stylus profile and very low moving mass. 

I could highly recommend Grace LEVEL II Ruby if you want something serious. There are more great profiles for LEVEL II model including MicroRidge / Boron.

Grace moving magnet cartridges are very nice! 

Remember those superb vintage MM/MI that can easily pass a test (  cannon shots ) on Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture (Telarc LP) ?? Only exceptional cartridges can stay in the groove while playing those Cannon Shots, suspension of the cartridge must be very well designed. 

If you want to stay with mid compliance then Victor X-1II (MM) series is something special too.  





  

Buy cartridges made by respected manufacturers who are/were in cartridge manufacturing business for a long time. There are not so many of them and you will see that most of them are Japanese companies. Don’t forget that cantilevers and diamonds for most of the cartridge manufacturers outside of Japan are still made in Japan.

Many cartridges for turntable manufacturers are made in Japan, but they are selling them under their own European, US of British brands. Most of such cartridges can’t compete with pure Japanese high-end MM, MI or MC.

And finally, if you like Moving Magnet or Moving Iron cartridges you have to understand that modern trend in High-End is LOMC, not Moving Magnet or Moving Iron, except maybe for SoundSmith who promote his MI design for years, and those Grado (also in business for a very long time).

The giants of the industry designed MM cartridges in the 70’s and that was the time when MM was absolutely amazing, in my opinion it was a peak of Moving Magnet cartridges and it’s finished in the late 80’s when digital replaced analog slowly.

The main music media is no longer vinyl, so why do you think those companies of today will produce exceptional MM (like they did when vinyl was the main format for everyone) ? We lose a lot of superb MM/MI cartridges and instead we have mediocre modern MM cartridges for affordable price or something unique for insane prices like this one for example (for many thousand dollars). Or those amazing vintage MM/MI that still available in NOS or MINT condition (i prefer this myself and i can only recommend the same to others).

What i see today is the manufacturers of belt drive turntables jumped in with their strange cartridges, logically i can understand it, if they can sell turntables why not just sell them with "their own" cartridge, it’s so easy to promote it like that claiming their tonearm or turntables has the best sound with their own cartridge, but it’s a myth. Most of those cartridges are just cheap OEM from Audio-Technica and related big Japanese companies, just with a different name on it.

Look for original design instead, for something special.

Most of the new cartridge manufacturers design ONLY cartridges, not a turntables.

If your turntable is Rega then you don’t have to buy a Rega cartridge for it, what is Rega in cartridge manufacturing business ?

I remember Audio-Technica turntables (nothing special), but their cartridges are great. I remember Victor turntables, tonearms and cartridges and they are superb in everything. Technics no longer make any cartridges, but in the 70’s they designed everything on high-end level (turntables, tonearms and cartridges). I never used Grace tonearms, but Grace cartridges were superb.

Nagaoka ? Only cartridges and accessories.
Even Ortofon manufacturing cartridges, their tonearm are made in Japan by Jelco.

Most of the small companies like Benz, Lyra, Koetsu, ZYX, Shelter ... never tried to make a turntables, just cartridges, Koetsu used to make a tonearms, but i think it was also Jelco OEM.

EMT designed tonearms, cartridges and turntables
Thorens ordered their carts from EMT

There are very few (if ever) companies that can make tonearms, cartridges and turntables on the same level and Rega is not one of them.

ClearAudio using Audio-Technica signal generators for their cartridges.

... etc

And don't forget to ask your dealer about the cost of re-tip if your bought your MC cartridge instead of some nice MM. With Sumiko ELLIPTICAL tip you can use only for about 600 hrs at recommended tracking force, then it must be inspected and after 600 hrs mark you will have to re-tip it soon. 

This Sumiko is extremely fragile, the cantilever can be easily destroyed simply because it is not protected at all. A bit strange that you worried about alignment (probably because of possible damage), but purchased the most dangerous cartridge. Like Lyra, VdH and Dynavector with unprotected cantilever , your Sumiko require extreme care in operation. Personally i always trying to avoid such cartridges, because after i accidentally destroyed one expensive MC i realized the cost of repair (if ever ever possible). 

When you reported us that your phono preamp has only MM input i assume your Sumiko is HOMC (High Output MC), right ? A high output MC is always inferior in comparison to the Low Output MC, mainly because of more coil wire winding that cause higher moving mass. 

Of course the most important is your own opinion about cartridge and the sound quality. 

 

Low output model (0.7 mV) will need more gain than your MM input can provide. Also for LOMC you may need optional loading, 47k Ohm could work too, but any lower value from 100 Ohm to 47k Ohm is nice to have too. 

The output of your Sumiko HOMC cartridge is just like MM cartridges, this is why your MM input is fine with your 2.7mV High Output MC

But MM cartridge definitely can work better with your MM phono stage, it can be better in terms of sound with more advanced (user replaceable)
stylus profile than your Elliptical, but the output of MM cartridges also higher up to 5mV depends on the model. 

Anyway, step by step upgrade is a long process, enjoy your HOMC, you can always find something better in the future. 

I really appreciate your input.
My problem is that I have no ability to install a cartridge on my Rega arm by myself.( It’s not a screw in type.). Whenever I’ve tried it I’ve screwed it up.

I’ve noticed that, but let me tell you that an MM cartridge must be installed without stylus, so it is impossible to damage anything. You add stylus when you cartridge body already screwed and wires already connected. Alignment of the cartridge is what you definitely have to learn and practice yourself, but it is very easy if you have a protractor like Dr. Feickert or the one you can get with Hi-Fi Test LP. Both tools are great and must have, you can find them used.

Too late, but i’m pretty sure this Sumiko is not your last cartridge :))

Cartridges cannot be designed to favor classical music! The idea that any component can favor a certain genre is entirely mythological. Usually this idea is applied to speakers but it really doesn't matter- what makes a component good for one genre makes it good for another.

Totally agree with Ralph's statement above. A good cartridge is good for all genres of music. Same about speakers. 

I wouldn’t mount a $1K cartridge on a P3. It’s a nice turntable but I doubt you can wring enough performance out of that deck and tonearm to justify the spend. Others will surely disagree. If it were me I would mount a Nagaoka MP-500 and be done with it.

I think an investment in a good cartridge is worth it for any turntable, because that cartridge does not have to stay on one turntable, it’s a separate device. $500 or $1000 - doesn’t matter at all, the price does not indicate the quality directly. Cartridge can cost more than a turntable and it’s fine if the quality of the cartridge is nice.

What must be avoided is an inferior cartridges for more money if the lower price cartridge can beat it easily (only owner can decide for himself).

For about a year i have two different cartridges and tonearms on one turntable connected to one mc/mm phono stage. This is the combination i am using most of the time for some reason.

1) High mass Lustre GST-801 tonearm with low compliance Miyabi MCA cartridge. WLM Phonata Reference (MC input) mosfet phono stage with built-in SUT.

2) Light mass Denon DA-401 tonearm with high compliance Grado Signature XTZ (MI) cartridge WLM Phonata Reference (MM input). Never heard any hum from my Grado XTZ.

Both cartridges are top class, but entirely different, it’s low compliance LOMC versus high compliance MI. Tonearms are perfectly matched.

It’s impossible to say which one is better!

1) Miyabi MCA is warm with very deep soundstage, great bass. Made in Japan by Takeda-San.


2) Grado XTZ is also warm with very wide soundstage. Made in USA by Joseph Grado.

Cartridges are different, but both are amazing in its own way.

This is the reason i never understand the statement that MC is better than MI by default, it is not true.

I wouldn’t listen to people that never had all types of cartridges for a long time using the best in its class (LOMC, HOMC, MM, MI, IM, MF)

Honestly, even if on a weekend i prefer one type of cartridges i know that there will be another weekend when my preferences will change to another type. It is absolutely necessary to have all types ready to use, for this reason i have two turntables, many phono stages, suts, headamps connected to 4 different tonearms with pretty big collection of cartridges on the record shelfs.

I think none of my top 25 cartridges can disappoint me, no matter what type (LOMC or MM/MI). Record pressing or mastering can disappoint me. The rest is all about the mood.

I like the process and i like the result. 5-10 years ago i tried many cartridges that disappointed me, i don’t have them anymore.

I curious what i’m gonna do in the next 10 years ? I believe most of the greatest vintage cartridges from the 70s/80s/90s already discovered.

@rvpiano great, now while you are enjoying your new cartridge you’d better send your Grado MI for inspection to make sure the stylus is not worn out.

The hum problem is gone with Sumiko ?

It is always worth to get back to the old cartridge after a few month of using new one. Then you can make a honest opinion to make sure you’re not just biased by the new toy :)) If you need more definition use your Grado with 100k Ohm loading instead of 47k Ohm.

Since the stylus tip on your Sumiko is just an Elliptical (you have the same on Grado) i don’t quite understand how you can get a better definition, probably what you hear is a typical MC high frequency raise and some sort of coloration you might prefer over neutrality of the Grado.

Look at the specs:
Your Grado: 10Hz - 60khz
Your Sumiko: 10Hz - 50khz

As you can see the specs for your Grado is slightly better. 

I’m using my Grado XTZ with 100k Ohm Vishay Naked Foil resistors, i have replaced conventional cheap stock 47k Ohm load resistors in my phono stage (just two resistors) and it was a huge upgrade!

The XTZ Grado has superior stylus profile called TWIN TIP.
You could upgrade your Grado with better stylus profile, not sure if the Grado Labs can do that for you, but you can ask.

I think this article could be interesting read if you want to know the opinion about MC coloration from professionals.

Anyway, personal preferences is just personal.  

Elliptical stylus has very short life span compared to LineContact and Micro Ridge type of styli. 

There are cartridges on the market with 9.5 mV output like Shure M44-7, unfortunately they are not the best MM in terms of sound quality, not better than MM with 1.5mV output.

High efficient speakers is the key to keep the volume control knob down even with passive preamps and low voltabe power amps.

I’m running 1.5 watt single ended triod tube amp with passive preamp, some of my cartridges are 0.2 mV and the volume control on my passive Pass Aleph L preamp is no more than 10-30%. Why? Because the speakers are 101db (and my room is not small).

It is system dependent. According to Nelson Pass we often have too much gain in our devises. 

Welcome back to MM club, there is no benefits of HOMC over MM in my opinion. Glad you like Virtuoso.

My advice is to inspect your Grado stylus tip and refresh it if it's worn. 

I love my Grado TXZ so much and i hope you can fix your Grado Reference Sonata. Here is grado factory tour, very interesting.