Dear friends: Only to show you what posted ( his words not mine. ) over the years in the same subject that gentleman that posted:
"" has been trying to put words in my mouth. ""
Read and make your own judgements about:
" the lower the resistive load it drives, the harder it becomes to move the stylus since that is where the mechanical energy is input to be converted to electrical energy. IOW the cantilever becomes stiffer. If you have a means of testing the mechanical resonance of your arm/cartridge combination, you can see that this affects the mechanical resonance since in essence you are reducing the compliance of the cartridge. "
STIFFER, RESONANCE arm/cartridge AND COMPLIANCE are the critical words he used.
Well you can go to any resonance frequency arm/cartridge combinations and make ( with the same arm effective mass. ) calculations changing the compliance and you will see that you have to change several CU to achieve a different arm/cartridge resonance frequency. So that " stiffer " at least does not affects: resonance frequency arm/cartridge in the alevel needed to.
"" The loading has no effect on the cartridge other than making the cantilever harder to move. ""
WELL FIRST SAID AND TALKS ABOUT CARTRIDGE COMPLIANCE AND IN THIS STATEMENT HE SAID THAT LOADING HAS NO EFFECT OTHER THAN..""
When he posted that statement I@intactaudio posted:
*********Isn't that essentially suggesting that compliance has no effect on the sound of a cartridge? ******
Another post by him where I'm supposing to put words in his mouth:
"""" It certainly has an effect on the cantilever, and if you look at my prior posts you'll see that I suggest this may affect its ability to trace higher frequencies. """"
NOW WHEN THE RESONANCE FREQUENCY OF ANY ARM/CARTRIDGE CHANGES AND EVEN IF THAT RESONANCE FREQUENCY IS OUT OF THE FREQUENCY IDEAL RANGE MAINLY COULD AFFECTS THE BASS RANGE.
Here again a " reloaded " post with the same mistakes:
"""""Even though its a tiny amount of power, it will make the cantilever stiffer and less able to trace high frequencies. It can and does affect the interaction between the arm and cartridge (effective mass and mechanical resonance). """
ANOTHER ONE RE-LOADED POST:
"""""" reducing the ability to trace high frequencies and certainly affecting the mechanical resonance of the cartridge and arm combination. """"""
AN ANOTHER ONE.
""""""" I have maintained is that the additional stiffness may decrease the ability of the cartridge to trace high frequencies """""""
AND LOOK THE NEXT ONE.
"""""""" Empirically speaking its easy to deduce that the load is affecting the ability of the stylus to trace the groove, which is why we see distortion as essentially the stylus is mistracking. """"""""
THIS IS REALLY SEALLY AS @mijostyn POSTED IN THIS THREAD.
""""""""" This makes the cartridge cantilever stiffer and less able to track higher frequencies. This is why the resistor can act as a tone control. """""""""
YES THERE ARE SO MANY POSTS.
"""""""""" (like less than 100 ohms) its possible to reduce the cartridge output and also decrease high frequency tracking abilities. """"""""""
"""""""""""" the loading will decrease the compliance of the cartridge, which in turn will reduce its high frequency response """"""""""""
THAT MEANS THAT LOADING CHANGE THE FREQUENCY RESPONSE. GO FIGURE ! !
J.Carr posted that that frequency response change is " BOGUS ".
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Well you was who posted and I only posted an answer. If you don't want this happens then stop to post refering to me. Easy.
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@lewm , I did not saY THAT. tHIS THREAD IS ONLY A FOLLOWER ( tITLE: CAN YOU READ THAT: PART II ? ) of not only another thread because the more critical about happened years ago and in the middle exist other threads here and in wbt forum and other forums.
It's not invective but you normally just do not read all the information not only in this thread subject but in other thread audio subjects and this is not invective but a fact. Sorry to disturb you.
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@lewm : this is what Wyn posted before your post:
""
I was the one who wrote previously about Faraday’s Law and Lenz’s law in support of Carr’s assertion.
For your information, I have designed DIY phono stages that embody the characteristics that he espouses- very high supersonic overload characteristics for example- and are extremely compliant to the RIAA characteristic, very low noise, and essentially unmeasurably low distortion. There are several hundred of them out there...
In any case, there are no conservation of energy issues here. The mechanical energy of the groove wall reaction to the gravity induced downforce (i.e. the forced motion of the stylus) "uses" Faraday’s law to produce an output EMF (voltage). That voltage produces a current that complies with Lenz’s law- which essentially defines the inductance of the coil and occurs as an energy conservation consequence- and that current is defined by the total impedance of the coil- the inductance, the capacitance and resistance- the equivalent load impedance in fact.
The back emf is just due to the inductance, and is proportional to the frequency.
For a 10uH inductance at 20kHz, the impedance is about 1.6ohms, so relative to a 100 ohm R the back emf generated that opposes the input voltage is about 1.6/100 of the input voltage, and 90degrees out of phase, so it’s about 0.1dB of the signal amplitude.
Yes, the back emf opposes the motion of the cartridge, but it’s very small compared to the generated voltage- which is due to the conversion of mechanical energy to electrical energy as described above- and essentially can be ignored in calculating the dynamics of the cartridge arm system. """
and years before in the same issue he posted:
""" effects of heavy resistive loading you state could be definitively true- certainly not on tracking which is demonstrably false based on IM tests on tracking performance that I have incidentally performed as a function of load. While mechanical impact does occur as a result of electrical load- there is some back emf necessarily generated by the signal current that affects the mechanical motion, but a quick back of the envelope calculation using Lenz’s law and the 10uH cartridge suggests a 2 orders of magnitude difference between the generated signal and the back EMF for a 100 ohm load at 20kHz- certainly not enough to cause tracking issues """
and this post too years ago by Wyn:
"""" By the way, I constructed a model for the cartridge back EMF using Lenz's law and incorporated it into my simulations.
For those who are interested, the simplest version of the law is V(t)= -LdI/dt.
In this case the parameters can be measured (the LC100A meter from Ebay is a great way to do it) and the back EMF acts to oppose the voltage developed in the coil. The fractional change (attenuation) in the signal voltage is easy to calculate as it approx. equal to -L*2*pi*frequency of interest/Rload. So, it's inversely proportional to the load R and proportional to the frequency. """"
After all those years why you did not learn or at least try to understand about that issue? sorry.
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Dear @wynpalmer4 : I understand you but due that some gentlemans as lewm just did not reads the whole cartridge loading threads then are reduntdant on the issue one and again and other gentlemans what want is to " win " the discussion or " hit " to some one else and of course always exist the stupid and the stupidity.
. Sorry that disturb you and sorry for what I will posts next.
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Dear @dover : As always I respect a lot your opinions but what you are talking about me and my " audio life " trend certainly is far away to be reality.
If that’s really what you think then you are wtrong about and let me explain you:
no I don’t confuse cantgilever material with cantilever motion, I’m with @intactaudio on that issue , if cantilever goes stiffer that’s is a good thing but if the cartridge suspension goes stiffer then that is way different and in no thread/posts no one named " cartridge suspension ".
Wyn and PM proved that changes on loading develops IMD, as J.Carr posted too, but don’t cause mistracking and I agree ( not today ) but from several years now with.
@imhififan gaves me the advise to make loading changes tests and he and I did it. I did it with different cartridges and one of that cartridge was the Denon 103 that by coincidence was the one he choosed too and both of us with different room/system experienced no mistraking issues by loading changes.
I know perfectly the impact that loading has mainly in the phono stages and in way minor way the impact in LOMC cartridges.
You are wrong about my phonolinepreamp that is designed with a really high headroom and is totally inmune of those poor designed phono stages even that my preamp frequency goes over 1.5Mhz.
@lewm owns the same unit, please ask him. No I don’t need per sé to load at 100 ohms when almost all LOMC performs the better with that load, theory of loading cartridges is theor and we know that some times what theory says does not happens under play.
Wrong too that I prefer MM cartridges, it’s not that way. Several years ago and due that I owned some MM/MI cartridges that were in closet I decided to give a listen to it and then I discovered to me that with today room/systems MM/MI cartridges can play with high quality performance levels and from there came that very long thread on MM cartridges.
In the other side ( maybe you born in audio with a LOMC cartridge in your hand. ) my very first cartridges in audio were all MM/MI that were the ones I re-discovered several years later and my first LOMC cartridge was the same Denon 103 that I used on the loading tests. In those times I owned Pioneer top of the line electronics and its HPM 900 speakers.
Btw, I posted several times that I’m not against the theory of that stiffer issue and I don’t want to add more comments about when all is done by the gentlemans that really has the knowledge high levels and first hand tests about even one of them made several tests in other thread in the same loading subject in real time because he has the modeling tools for it: yes that gentleman is Wyn. Can you do the same with the same knowledge levels?
No one is perfect and certainly you and me are far away from there.
Btw, please don't follow try to hit me because you can't and I'm not like you and I'm not to start speaking of each of your system audio items you own, so stay calm and cool.
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@mijostyn : " Digital is hear to stay .."
With out single dude. Good.
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Dear @mijostyn : Thank's. The we will see.
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Dear @intactaudio " the possibility that heavy loading may actually reduce mistracking hasn't been mentioned or covered by anyone .."
I did it.Over the years participated in no less that 8 threads about cartridge loading here and wbf and in one of them I posted something as:
stifness of cantilever it's a good thing because cartridge designers normally looks for the stiffer cantilever material as Boron, higher stifness the better in favor of better quality level listening performance.
Anyway, all is done.
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Dear @intactaudio : This is what I posted and pasted from what he posted and came from a years ago cartridge loading thread. The loading/tracking is not a new issue but an " old " issue discussed here and in other internet audio forums:
and here somerthing that he forgot to mention and that comes in that " old " thread that shows that that " myth " of tracking problems due to cartridge loading changes is a lie and nothing more:
""" heavy resistive loading you state could be definitively true- certainly not on tracking which is demonstrably false based on IM tests on tracking performance that I have incidentally performed as a function of load. While mechanical impact does occur as a result of electrical load- there is some back emf necessarily generated by the signal current that affects the mechanical motion, but a quick back of the envelope calculation using Lenz’s law and the 10uH cartridge suggests a 2 orders of magnitude difference between the generated signal and the back EMF for a 100 ohm load at 20kHz- certainly not enough to cause tracking issues. """
Btw, yes I have too that test LP and is logical that when we are mesuring/talking of compliance tracking always comes in the analysis.
Cartridge compliance is so important that can " change " what we are accustom to do on the tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency issue that tell us that that resonance frequency must be in the 8hz-12hz ( around it. ) frequency range and the compliance has the " power " to does this:
the LOMC Ortofon MC2000 model was reviewed in the 60?s by the Audio magazine, the cartridge was mounted in a Technics EPA 250 that was mounted in the Technics SP-10MK2.
Well the cartridge weigth is 11grs. and the measured compliance was over30+ cu and along that tonearm its resonance frequency was as low as 5hz. Go figure ! and guess what : that tonearm/combination that in theory can’t run together had no single tracking issue with the true test Telarc 1812. Why that kind of success? because that really high compliance that gives that cartridge those extraordinary tracking abilities and I owned not one but 3 samples of that cartridge and you can be sure that at any loading will has not tracking issues.
It’s impossible that loading can change the compliance in a LOMC cartridge in a cu levels that provoque added mistracking to the usual cartridge levels, no way.
I’m not against that loading stiff the cantilever the real subject is that that stifness micro micro microscopic level that exist can´t be of the necessary magnitud to cause adding mistracking.
As @mijostyn posted: silly to think in other way. Now, in the other side no one including the person that supports that till today never proved that added mistracking by changes in cartridge loading.
I understand you but I think is useless and futile continue talking of something with out true prove. Don’t you think?
On other topic and thank’s to your last post that shows that Benjamin B. Bauer was the CBS laboratory Vice-president I learned that that Mr. Bauer is the same gentleman that in 1945 along names as Baerwald, Stevenson, Pisha and obviously Löfgren developed too equations/solution for tonearm/cartridge alignment: exist a Bauer alignment
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Well, maybe because in the analog media the signal pass through more passive parts than in the digital domain? . Even in today LPs you know if that LP was recorded in the digital domain and you will know for sure listening the bass range that's a main advantage of digital over analog.
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Dear @mijostyn " did order an ultra accurate RIAA board but I am already set up to do digital RIAA correction. "
If you have that ultra accurated inverse eq. RIAA why do you think you could need digital corrections to that accurated analog RIAA?
Maybe you know " something " that I don't " see " down there.
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Those tests with the same loading and you will see as I said that measured not the same but with tiny differences.
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Dear @mijostyn : Over several forums that person is atmasphere, yes silly.
@intactaudio , " The only answer I can come up with is mistracking. "
All cartridges no matter what has a mistracking issues always and in every LP recording.
Sometimes and depending of the room/system resolution levels and the accuracy of the cartridge/tonearm alignment and set up we can be aware of some of those " mistracking " and normally we don’t.
In the other cartridge loading thread other gentleman and I with out been in touch made tests using the same cartridge making changes on load. The cartridge was a non very good tracker: Denon 103 and both of us in different room/systems and different loads can’t fin out any difference in what we were listening due to load changes.
In that thread I named some of the over 20+ test LPs I own where are those 2 you named here.
Wyn proved that loading does not affects the tracking cartridge abilities and JC says the same and we audiophiles tested and confirm it. What exist always is IMD issues but not for loading additional mistracking.
In the other side, think what you need to change the cartridge tracking ability with the effect to have higher mistracking levels ( everything the same ) and you will find that the parameter that needs to be changed is the compliance ( of course that VTF or AZ or VTA can do it too but everything the same compliance is the one. ) in the cartridge and for in true can exist a higher levels of mistracking maybe you need to change say 15cu in the cartridge to around 8cu-10cu ( and in this non-existent hypothetical example it will change too the tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency. ) and certainly load changes can’t do that not even can makes that compliance goes down from 18cu to 17.8 cu.
Loading does not affect tracking/compliance in cartridges and certainly not FR that as said JC: " that’s bogus.
Now, one thing is try to change compliance in static status and the other during playback because in playback all the stylustip/cantilever forces that provoque the spining of the LP grooves friction against the stylus ti are enormous/gigantic for any radical change of loading can disturb it and remember that the stylus tip is in continuous " jumping "/loosing contact with the LP surface. Loading does not change all those.
Why the changes in measured IMD by PM? for other reasons but tracking issues. Btw, please makes this test several times: track the same LP grooves and measured 4 times in a raw and you will see that measures you took are different even that made with the same test grooves.
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Dear friends : For some of you that read for the first time the Wyn posts here next I pasted what he posted several years ago in other cartridge loading thread:
"" No, I did not design the AD797. That was Scott Wurcer- a colleague at ADI and, incidentally, for whatever it’s worth, also an ADI design fellow. However, I know the design quite well.
He and I were colleagues in the opamp group in the 80s. He focused on high performance relatively low frequency opamps such as the AD712 and then the AD797, amongst others.
I focused on high performance high speed amps like the AD843, 845 (at one point an audio darling), 846 (also a transimpedance design with some very interesting design aspects that I gave an ISSCC paper on) etc. etc. mostly using a complementary bipolar process that I helped develop that I believe was also used in the AD797. I also did things like designing the FET based AD736/737 RMS-DC converter and others.
I moved on to more RF, disk drive read/write, GSM, CDMA etc. transceivers, signal processing, PLL and DSP designs. ""
and here somerthing that he forgot to mention and that comes in that " old " thread that shows that that " myth " of tracking problems due to cartridge loading changes is a lie and nothing more:
""" heavy resistive loading you state could be definitively true- certainly not on tracking which is demonstrably false based on IM tests on tracking performance that I have incidentally performed as a function of load. While mechanical impact does occur as a result of electrical load- there is some back emf necessarily generated by the signal current that affects the mechanical motion, but a quick back of the envelope calculation using Lenz’s law and the 10uH cartridge suggests a 2 orders of magnitude difference between the generated signal and the back EMF for a 100 ohm load at 20kHz- certainly not enough to cause tracking issues. """
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Dear @mijostyn : After reading the Wyn posts are you still thinking of the current phono stage superiority over the voltage designs PS you supported?
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Dear friends: Looking to almost all my vintage LP test recordings I found out that I have some even sealed as one from Micro-Acoustics and the Ortofon serial 003 that yesterday opened and listen to it.
It's not a test tones and the like but the lovely tracks are MUSIC, this LP is an Ortofon collaboration with the label Opus 3 that in the past ( too ) made 3-4 test LPs.
Well, first than all this Ortofon LP is really good centered with no waves you can detect and even that's a vintage recording not only is a great recording but the LP recorded surface is dead silent, even the band that separates the tracks is dead silent.
If you can find out buy it, it's a good investment for you and your room/system set up.
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Dear friends: Looking to the PM charts that @intactaudio shared with us yesterday I took in count that ( for my self. ) I can measure it too due ( as I posted several times in this forum. ) that I own around 20+ different vintage comercial test LPs from: CBS, Shure, JVC, Stereo Review, HiFI, Vanguard, B&K, Ortofon, Audio Technica, etc. etc.
Through them I have 4 tracks IMD dedicated and rigth now I'm talking with some of my audio friends looking for the ritgh phono stage that permits in easy way changes in the cartridge loading because in my unit I can do it unsoldering/soldering resistors . As I said I will do for my self satisfaction and with withness of the gentleman that will share his phono stage for 3-4 hours any day in the afternoon.
So " stupid " I'm that having a solution I did not see way before.
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That laST POST IS PART OF THE WHOLE REGARDS STUPIDITY COMING FROM THE SAME PERSON, COMING FOR HIS FRUSTRATION .
@intactaudio audio " falls " in that person game ( because intactaudio in good faith gentleman unknow that person game. ) that when he can't win then he follows been argumentative and goes " around and around " with different issues than the one under discussion ( exactly like here. ) makind a way deviation from the main subject.
I followed his " game " when he already bbeated and I did it for many years till I learned.
That's why JC just does not follows that stupid game and never suported him with the IMD issue discussed for years.
Please look to what stupid levels goes his stupidity:
""" At any rate, Moncreif threw off his numbers by using a 5 Ohm load, since that is not only not a........., if he really wanted to make his point valid he needed to show the results using real world loads that are actually in use. "
Certainly it's not PM who should do that because PM shows at 100 ohms too but more important : that stupid man not only does not shows nothing/measures to prove his point but now he ask that the gentleman that measured and proved that the IMD is developed by the cartridge loading effect still makes more measures: GO FIGURE ! ! !
Yes, in our world exist any kind of stupidity we could think.
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Dear @intactaudio : "
and 100Ω values are odd but that is secondary to demonstrating the effect. "
and something important is that PM is the only gentleman that showed/measured in that regards,
The critic made by atmasphere is useless and for any one is easy to post that kind negative comments. Could be better to prove with measures that PM is wrong, this is the way to do it but obviously till that happens PM it's not wrong and in this regards a congratulations to him is the least we can do for.
Again, thank's for your PM information that trully and finally puts the " ligth " we all need it about.
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Dear friends @intactaudio : I made an extensive search looking for documented/measured information about the JC comment on IMD and looking for too if JC mentioned a second time that issue and he never did it, at least I can't find out.
Btw, here information from experts, first by @hagtech :
"" As mentioned earlier, the peaking is best damped by lowering the load resistance. This is why MC cartridge manufacturers often request loading of about 100 ohms. The next plot shows the 5mH 10 ohm cartridge loaded with 200pF and a variable resistance. ..................... Most MC cartridges have less inductance than this example (chosen to highlight the issue), and so the typical loading value of 100 ohms is usually quite reasonable. "
Next comes by the designer/manufacturer of SUTs as intactaudio:
" Most modern moving coil cartridges have a source impedance of about 10 ohms and the “load impedance ten times the source impedance” rule suggests 100 ohms is a good choice for load impedance ...... This is well in line with the recommendations from many cartridge manufacturers. Anything above 100 ohms should be equally suitable.
Does the cartridge's tonal balance change with load impedance? It certainly does if the cartridge is a moving magnet type, but low output moving coil cartridges are much less sensitive to changes in the load impedance. Users sometimes claim that higher load impedances produce a brighter sound than lower ones, but cartridge manufacturers tend be non-specific about recommended load impedances, often recommending a wide range or simply anything above a minimum impedance.
The recommendation of Rothwell Audio Products is in line with Ortofon, Audio Technica and most other cartridge manufacturers - that 100 ohms is a good value for most cartridges, and that the exact value is not critical as long as it is well above the cartridge's source impedance.
One thing is certain, and that is that the load impedance should not be equal to the cartridge's source impedance. That would produce a 6dB loss of signal (when there's often only a few hundred microvolts to start with) and seriously compromise the signal-to-noise ratio. "
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Dear @intactaudio : Re-reading several posts here and in other forum about the loading issue I tend to agree with you. Please let me explain:
first JC works graphs here were not to prove nothing about IMD or frequency changes because MC loading.
That's why he posted that " FR changes is bogus " when he posted this to a forum member who asked about the FR effects of cartridge loading: brigth vs dark sound. Doing his thread answer ( JC ) made a comment about IMD but was only a comment to re-afirm/confirm that exist no FR changes because loading. A time comment and nothing more than that.
PM confirmed no FR chnages with cartridge loading and all these is the only true about cartridge loading and FR.
The JC advise is the lower cable capacitance the better.
@larryi pointed out:
" One position is that low loading is preferred because it CAUSES distortion that is perceived as high frequency information and people have grown accustomed to, and prefer, the distortion. "
According what you said PM posted:
" finally proposes that the excess IMD caused by a lightly loaded MC cart is often perceived as high frequency detail that many have grown accustomed to and the "dark" sound of heavily loaded cartridge can be due to a system being tuned for the typical lightly loaded case. "
@hagtech posted with no other significant comment:
"
reset the loading to 47K, buttoned things up and called the wife in for a listening session. Sure as heck both of us noticed the highs were crisper "
All those post coincide in that specific regards.
Now, I can remember that over 30 years now I almost always recomended to load highly the MC cartridges at around 100 ohms and doing what larry posted: move the volumen position to recover the SPL and with this simple " even SPL " the dark sound just gones and the sound will shines with lower distortion levels that at 20k-47k.
Today with your help of those PM works and the other gentlemans help I confirm that over the years my take about those 100 ohms loading is just rigth and as a fact that's the load impedance that I used and use with dozens of LOMC cartridges that I owned and own in my active high gain phonolinepreamp and when I'm using a SUT in my unit I set up the MM load at 100k. Everything works excellent.
Thank's to you all to share a critical information for me. Good !
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Dear @intactaudio : This is part of the J,Carr w.papers ( I never seen any from atmasphere. ) that I'm sure you are aware of it:
- Kleos electrical model (9uH, 5.4ohm, 8pF)
- Lyra Phono Pipe Very Low Capacitance tonearm-to-phonostage cable 120cm actual measurements (0.75uH, 0.325ohm, 32pF)
What these tell me (among other things) is that, all else being equal, changing just the interconnecting cable (each of which has a different capacitance characteristic), changes the optimal resistive load; and if you can afford to bring up that peak in the MHz to something <10dB then you can bring up resistive loading to about 500-1K ohms even with a highly-capacitive cable; and finally, you are not really affecting the audible high frequencies with any resistive load shown. "
Yes he said too that a phono stage could be overloaded by the inductance, load impedance and cable capacitance if the designer does not took in count this issue and when that happens appears as IMD. Today SS designs comes with really high overload/headroom margin/level.
You said:
" Moncrief suggests (and shows) that for MC carts, IMD distortion levels are directly related to applied cartridge load. "
but atmasphere that has that IAR 5 posted:
" did not show is where the IMD was coming from..."
So, if PM did not shows from where comes the IMD only JC is rigth?
Because exist a big difference in both assertions what you said that PM showed means that always appears the IMD when what JC said is that the IMD sometimes could appears when the phono unit design was not designed tooking in count that " issue ".
I think that you need re-read the PM w.papers or pasted here for all we can learn and most important to answer my question to you.
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Dear @intactaudio : You are rigth and what PM IAR 5 posted was confirmed by J.Carr when in other thread on the same issue posted:
" To claim that the loading affects the measurable frequency response of the cartridge is bogus. However, if inappropriate loading bathes the phono stage in copius amounts of high-frequency noise, it may start to distort (unless the designer implemented various techniques to make sure that this won't happen), and the result will likely be intermodulation distortion. "
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
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Dear friends: LOMC cartridges are not sensitive to load impedance but exist a relationship between the cartridge internal inductance and the overall capacitance with the phono stgae/IC cable that are the ones that could change the " color " of what we listen with changes in load impedances.
Why active high gain phono stages does not comes with fixed 47k impedance? because is not the standard for a LOMC but more for MM/MI cartridges. Normally active high gain phono stages are designed and comes with choices with load impedance between 50 ohms and 1k impedance values. Yoday phono stages designs comes with high/healthy overload(headroom levels and really has not problems .
So, we have not to distress about LOMC load impedance just tests the alternatives that has your phono stages and set up the one that fulfill your needs. There is no correct or incorrect choice about and no you can't have compliance changes with load impedance changes that could be higher enough for you can detect or for you have to be worried about, no distress other way of thinking is just bs.
Next, the first hand experiences of almost all of you audiophiles about:
""" Benz Micro Wood SL and have it loaded at 150 Ohms which I thought sounded best after some trial and error. The specs for the cartridge list >100 Ohms. I tried 47K Ohms and as others have experienced I found that setting to be harsh and the music lacked cohesiveness. """
"" I do not subscribe to loading a moving coil at 47k, I reserve that for my many moving magnets.
What is neat about my pro-ject tube box DS2 is that I am able to dial up any impedance loading so desired on the fly from 0 to 1000 ohms. ""
"" specially my Denon 103R that sound better with lower loading, but I like the 103R at 1.6K rather than 100 or 400 ohms.
I'm happy to experiment with all the different settings, regardless of what's considered correct.
FWIW, I like some of my MM carts at 68K rather than 47K. I wish I had 100K to try easily. "
""
indicates, the instructions on my Lyra cartridge recommends anything between 100 to 1000 ohms.
The phono stage (Manley Steelhead) recommends just listening to the cartridge at various loads, and pick what sounds best. ""
"" like others I have found 47k to be way to bright/harsh when tried. I have usually settled into more of a “loaded” sound than “unloaded” as I prefer the generally beefier low end. ""
"" my Lyra Kleos sounds best anywhere between 60 to 500 ohms depending on recordings (overly dark ones at 500, overly bright ones at 60 and 400 for most, that's why I love the PS audio stellar phono preamp with its instant ohms adjustment on the remote). However the changes are not very significant. On the other hand, my new Sumiko Starling sounds best between 100 and 280 but changes are much more significant. Anything 300 and higher, count me out since it loses its slam. ""
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Dear @quincy : " My take from this recent thread is as follows. Load at 100 Ohms or at 47K Ohms with a quality MC cartridge. "
No, it's not that way. Your phono stage has several load choices from 200 ohms to 47k and what you have to do with both cartridges as the Delos is to test the quality performance in your system starting at 200 ohms and then change to the other choices till you decide which load is the one that fulfill what you like the more.
This is the Lyra J.Carr cartridge designer Delos load advice:
" Recommended load directly into MC phono input: 97.6ohm ~ 806ohm. )
Btw, " all those years listening to the incorrect load setting.. " :
no, was not incorrect according with Lyra 500 ohms is inside a " correct " load impedance range Lyra advise.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
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