my first cart was a klyde, then Dynavector Karat 17d (retails for 800 bucks or so)...GREAT value!!! i had it for 2 yrs...sold it, bought an arkiv for 350.00 and got 800 towards the tradein for akiva...so really, 3000 for akiva, minus 450 (net trade in) and 500 (sale of dynavector)..got it for 2100...still a lot, but heck, the klyde was 1500 i think. btw, which lingo do you have, old shoebox or new?