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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy

Showing 7 responses by rfogel8

rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Charles, I'll give you something else to think about; what kind of solder is JWM going to use? Remember, everything matters. Yuk, yuk!

Of course, you're going to have to invite me over after you get some time on them.
rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Greetings, I've been following this thread, checking in every once in a while, and am wondering if some of you may have compared Mundorf foil, Goertz foil and the Duelands, all copper?

I'm working on a couple speaker projects and already have Dueland 5.0uF CAST caps on the way but am curious about other's experiences with inductors.

The speakers, 2-way satellites, use a Hiquphon OW4, 3/4" soft-dome tweeter and 5.5" ScanSpeak mid-woofer that's transmission line loaded. The external first order series crossover uses two inductors and one cap, that's it, no resistors on the tweeter mucking things up.

I've already built a couple pairs of these and in the past have used Mundorf Silver/Oil caps and Goertz 12AWG copper foil inductors. I'll add that I'm not unhappy with the results but.... having followed this thread and hearing so many good things about the Duelands, curiosity "forced" me to purchase their CAST caps.

All values being equal, I can't imagine there's a whole lot of sonic difference between the Mundorf copper foil inductor and the Goertz? I've been using Goertz for many years and never felt they were lacking. The Dueland CAST on the other hand, with its "proprietary" damping process, looks to be a different animal? At their price, anybody taken the plunge?

One last thing, while the comparisons may have been discussed earlier in this thread, who's got time to go back and read all the responses? I'd really appreciate any info/opinions from experienced users.

Regards!
rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Irish65,

Thanks for your response. It was pretty much what I expected and as you say, one cap and a couple inductors in series, everything makes a difference and every change can be heard.

I shudder to think what you spent on the Dueland silver pieces but I understand your thinking. If your speakers are keepers, as mine are, then you might as well get the very best out of them. I know from experience, silver(done right) can take things up to another level.

I recently dropped some serious change on new Siltech G7 Series silver/gold interconnects and speaker cables and all I can say is, WOW! Like making a major component upgrade. I had a similar but less dramatic experience some years ago switching from Kimber's copper phono cable to their silver TAK cable; big improvement.

Though I'm "married with children" and quite happy with the Mundorf Silver/Oil, Goertz mix, I may look into the CAST copper inductors too. Since I already have the CAST copper caps coming, now might be a good time to do a total Dueland "makeover"?

rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Irish65,

Yep, I'm using a .22mH inductor on the tweeter, the other is a .665. I know, everybody makes a .668 but a friend(he too rolls his own) and I decided after much listening, that we slightly preferred a value of .665 on the ScanSpeak. Alpha Core was more than willing to make them for us. If I went with Dueland CAST, I could live with .668 and in the end, the sound would be ever so slightly more laid back; not necessarily a bad thing.

I always make my crossovers external; hate those vibrations! So... how much am I really going to gain by using Dueland's potted coils? I know, it's probably more than just their compression/potting technique? On the other hand, copper is copper and once you get past 99.99% pure, blah, blah, blah, what's the difference?

Another question; I have a pair of Goertz silver foil inductors lying around here collecting dust. I forget the values(definitely higher than .22mH) but my buddy has the capability to measure them so we could easily trim them down to .22mH. Would I be better off using the silver Goertz on the tweeters and Dueland copper on the mids or do you think Dueland copper throughout would be the better way to go? I've been looking for a home for those Goertz!

How 'bout internal hook-up wire? Basically, from tweeters and mids to external crossover, approx. 23" x 4 for each satellite; total 184". I've been using multi strand silver from Purist Audio and once again, don't hear any problems.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards, Bob
rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Irish65,

I understand what you're saying about the "current passing thru caps/inductors" causing some "vibration" though who knows how much it really comes into play with an external x-over? As for "soft annealed" copper, hey, what do I know? If it improves the sound, I'm for it!

Regardless, the Dueland Cast inductors interest me and I'd like to hear them in an all Dueland Cast x-over. As mentioned, with one cap and two coils in series, everything matters and I'm inclined to go all out on this one. going all out I'm surprised too though, that you think the coils make more of a sonic difference than the caps. I would've thought the reverse.

rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Sorry the way my previous thread ended. I meant to hit "Preview first" but mistakenly hit "Submit". Hate when that happens!

You don't have to convince me of the sonic merits of silver but the price of admission is a bit steep with Dueland. Heck I thought Siltech was expensive til I looked at Dueland's pricing!

Finally, I generally prefer 12AWG inductors that will naturally give you lower DCR than 14/16AWG alternatives but 8AWG seems a bit much. I don't use resistors on my tweeters so a good quality 12AWG coil seems to strike the right balance between protection and sonics; ditto for my midrange.
rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Irish65,

Thanks again for your comments. If I pursue the Dueland inductors, they will most definitely be Cast.

Regards!
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