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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy

Showing 30 responses by mikirob

mikirob
955 posts
 
Grannyring,
Do you know where I can get the capacitor values for the Coincident Dynamo 34se? anyone? Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Grannyring, Charles,
I believe Yazaki-san is going to recommend similar Arizona Green/Blue capacitor that he recommended to Jeff Day. I think, if I remember correctly, there might be Mallory, or some others. Time will tell the tale of the tape. Also, the "brown" resistors as well (forgetting name at moment); of course in the right values and volts. Do you think Israel Blume would part with the schematic, or provide parts list? Or am I way out of line with a request like that? I'm not at all certain about the etiquette of DIY. I'll keep you updated. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Grannyring,
Thank you. Shirokazu Yazaki-San, the Japanese designer on Jeff Day's blog that turned us all on to the WE16ga and Belden 8402 is going to make some recommendations (capacitor and resistor) for me and this amp as hid did for Jeff Day and his McIntosh MC30s. As you know I have never done anything like this before, just a rank amateur. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Charles, Grannyring,
Thank you again! Grannyring, after the success with the Western Electric WE16ga speaker wire and Belden 8402 interconnect that Yazaki-san suggested to us as well as all the accolades Jeff Day heaped upon Yazaki-san for the capacitor and resistor changes to his McIntosh MC30s I believe I will take his suggestion. Day also re-wired his Dueland Cast external crossover for his Tannoy Royal Westminster with the WE16ga with great success. I suppose if I'm going this far (for me), the Jupiter Caps are always available to me in standby mode. I intend to also experiment, first with my Tekton M-Lore speakers and re-wire with the WE16ga as well as upgrade the Caps. If success, will do the Tekton Lore. Best to both of you. Rob

mikirob
955 posts
 
Hi Charles,
If you read Jeff Day's listening bias as well as Yazaki-san comments on his journey to find "Real Sound", it is extremely enlightened thinking and listening; and I think you would find it an interesting worthwhile read. How Yazaki-san actually found/made his own "Real Sound" choices is fascinating, goes against the normal listening bias of audiophile listening. I believe what he found out in his musical journey closely mirror what I am seeking. Jeff Day and some of his colleagues believe the change to Day's already fabulous system via Yazaki-san capacitor and resistor changes in conjunction with the WE16ga wire and Belden 8402 interconnect have brought Day's system up a notch or two, perhaps the best sound they have ever heard. Now, from these guys, that is saying a lot. Yes, I am going to pursue that " Real Sound" as Yazaki-san defines it. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Charles,
You are correct that there are a number of good capacitor choices, never one universal best; but I've got to start somewhere, Yazaki-san is a quality starting point, perhaps an ending point.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Jeff Day wired his Dueland Cast with the WE16ga with great success. You can read about his use of the WE here: jeffplace@me.com.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Correction: jeffsplace@me.com
mikirob
955 posts
 
Volleyguy1,
Jeff did have his Mac's Capacitor and resistor brand changed to Arizona green and blue capacitors, resistors to Ohmite Brown Devils. You should read his latest blogs on all that change. A wonderful Japanese designer, Shirokazu Yazaki-san, recommended to Jeff about the WE16ga as well as the Arizona capacitor and Ohmite resistor as well as some other valuable information while Day was doing a review of Yazaki-san SPEC amp for Positive Feedback.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Hi Charles,
No, not really, I'd prefer to purchase one of Yazaki-San Western Electric DA30 SET amps. Now, I have't heard either of these amps yet. But let's say they sound nearly identical, I'd still go for the tube unit. Why? Complex answer that I'll have to perk on for a bit to articulate in a coherent manner.

I have the highest respect for Yazaki-san talent, ears as you stated above; he is a "kindred spirit" in the pursuit of "real sound". I, like Yazaki-san, listen differently than the typical audiophile. I quoted in an earlier thread Jeff Day's listening bias, "Timbral Listening" which matches exactly my own listening bias. I believe Yazaki-san, perhaps you too listen this way...prefer single ended DHT with highly efficient speakers. Timbre, tone, density, weight, fullness, color, texture, harmonic rightness, dynamics, transparent, natural, organic feel and flow, musical, emotional intent of musicians come through to the listener. Best, Rob

mikirob
955 posts
 
Hello Charles,
I thought it useful to reprint Jeff Day's "Listening Bias" since he articulates it so succinctly, matches exactly how I listen, plus, if you read Yazaki-san's own words about how he came to find his own sound, the pursuit of "Real Sound" and his design philosophy I think you will understand that we are all "kindred spirits" in how we listen.

From Jeff Day Blog on Listening Bias:

"Thought it might be handy for those following my writing at Positive Feedback Online to know what my listening biases are to aid you in interpreting and decoding my reviews. Just to alert you, my listening perspective is somewhat of a minority opinion in the Hi-Fi community of North America, but will be more familiar to those listeners in Turkey, Africa, and Japan, who tend to be more familiar with timbral ways of listening. My hierarchy of importance is aligned more closely to how well a Hi-Fi rig plays the musical content of recordings (I know, it’s a heretical concept), rather than how it ‘sounds’ in the more traditional audiophile ‘sonic’ sense.

As a result of my being drawn towards the musical content of recordings, I tend to be a bit more of a timbral listener than is typical for a lot of Westerners, meaning that the reproduction of the textures, colors, and tones & overtones in the music are really important to me. To this end I look for timbral realism at the band level (the band’s signature ‘sound’) and at the individual instrument level (the unique ‘voices’ of instruments). I want them to sound recognizably like themselves in tone and texture, so that their full tone color can develop, which I think helps lend a feeling of beauty and expressiveness to the music. I like the melody (the tune you ‘whistle while you work’), harmony (treble & bass accompaniments to the melody) and rhythm (the steady beat that determines the tempo) to have a life-like flow and connectedness in how the musicians interact—just like in real life. I want dynamics (variations in loudness) to evoke that which I hear in life for an emotional connection to the melody and rhythm. For loudness I like my music playback to be similar to live loudness levels, which for the kind of music I listen to the most, jazz, usually means 80 dB or louder. Finally, I want tempo portrayed so that both the mood and speed of the music are conveyed through it, just like it is with music in real life.

I consider the sonic performance of a Hi-Fi rig on the non-musical artifacts of the recording process to be of value, but of less importance to me than the performance on the musical content of recordings (as above). So things like transparency (being able to ‘see’ into the recording), soundstage (the three dimensions of the recorded space in width, height and depth), soundspace (the acoustic ‘space’ of the soundstage), and imaging (the feeling of solidity and localization of instruments & musicians on the soundstage) are important to me, but they are not my primary focus – the musical content is.

So I like my cake (the musical content of recordings) with a little frosting (the sonic artifacts of the recording process) for a balanced taste treat. Too much frosting and not enough cake puts me off. So that’s me, and you might be different, but at least now you know."

Well, that sums it up for me very nicely, that is how I listen. I obviously really enjoy Day's Blog, simpatico person in attitude toward family, food, wine, music; a "kindred spirit". I can trust what he writes about when it comes to equipment and music. Same for Yazaki-san who not only has great ears, but he can design/build/modify equipment to match the sound Day enumerates. Like you, both big Jazz aficionados.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Agree on Dudley musical tastes and choices. I've always enjoyed his writing since subscribing to Listener over twenty years ago. If I wasn't moving in the direction I am I might go Shindo like Dudley. I likely agree with you on the political stuff as well...but too much of that in my dailey life as it is. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Grannyring,
Yes, it is almost gone, looks like only end of rolls. I've personally been scouting the world for spools of the WE16ga with no luck although I know smaller amounts exist in Japan and Taiwan. I agree with you, this is the best wire I have listened to as well regardless of price. I also have enough wire to wire several amps and several speaker internals plus several reasonable lengths for speaker cables doubled up. Whew!!! Glad you took a chance. I'm happy I acted promptly for once in my life.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Justubes2,
Most of the WE16ga has been bought off eBay from seller tajacobs. No, it is not the solid core, but WE16ga stranded tinned copper, about 25 strands. Unfortunately for now, the legitimate best seller of the WE is almost out of it, apparently only end of spool and scrap ends. I don't know if he'll be able to replenish his stock. Best of luck, but I think Japan and Taiwan, maybe Hong Kong, still has some sellers with this wire, but be careful, some of these sellers appear to have crappy lots, if authentic. Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Brownsfan,
Glad that you purchased some WE16ga. I believe you will like it. Buy a couple meters of the Belden 8402as well. Very simpatico with the WE. I'm also very happy to see you pop up here and I truly hope your move, selling your house is going well.

I replaced the Mullard 5AR4 in the Coincident Dynamo with a NOS Mullard CV378 skinny coke bottle shaped rectifier. I like it very much. Better timbre, better bass, bigger stage, but most importantly, better tone across the board, lots of texture and tonal color, etc.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Charles/Jetrexpro,
I have a pair of High Wycomb Fat Bottle CV378 that I am saving for the big Franks...but In the meantime my Coincident Dynamo is really sounding superb, especially with the WE16ga and Belden 8402, RCA Red Base 5691, Shuguang Black Treasure 6CA7, and the Mullard skinny bottle CV378. Now, I can only imagine what Yazaki-san suggestions will bring to this already wonderful little amp. Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Hi Brownsfan,
Here is the link to Belden 8402 interconnect: http://btpa.com/IC8402-XX.html

Remember, you must order a minimum of ten (10) feet of cable, for example, one six foot pair terminated; have them terminated with Switchcraft 3502AAU RCA.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Hello Charles,
I feel extremely fortunate to have scored the older NOS Mullard High Wycombe CV378 "Fat Bottle". I spoke with Israel about this tube as well as "skinny bottle"; he was very enthusiastic about this tube plus liked the slow start. I read Dubstep Girl review of 5U4GB and their equivalent tubes. I must say she is accurate in her assessment on the brands I have tried. Dubstep was reviewing with a Woo headphone amp, so not apples to apples, but it worked out alright. Yazaki-san likes the NOS GEC and Marconi types like U52, for example, as well as some others. Yazaki-san sent Jeff Day a really nice NOS 5U4G rectifier under the Haltron banner, but since they never made their own tubes I wonder what it is? I'll have to ask.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Charles,
A simple note on the Coincident Dynamo 34SE: as I suspected from the start that this little amp would respond well to upgrades, I must say it has exceeded my expectations. The Dynamo has responded to every tube or wire change in a significant and meaningful manner. All the listening attributes enumerated above in "timbral listening" are truly being met with enormous success with some quality frosting on the cake as Jeff Day stated; for example, the soundstage is big, well-defined, holographic, if you will. Imaging, excellent. On well-recorded material this amp is astounding. It is difficult for me after all these years to comprehend it. And to think, "the best is yet to come," with the Yazaki-san guided changes to capacitor, resistor and internal wire. "Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!!" Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
I think Grannyring meant to say WE 16ga, not 14ga. The color does not matter, just be sure it is 16ga stranded tinned copper. I am going to experiment and try the WE14ga stranded tinned copper in a couple of applications. Every descriptor Grannyring has used about the WE16ga is spot on. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Volley guy, I believe that Yazaki-san (the person responsible for bringing the WE16ga to our attention via Jeff Day blog, jeffsplace.me) mentioned that if your speaker cable is longer than three (3) meters, you might consider the WE14ga, if I remember correctly. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
That's it Grannyring! They sound real. That is what Yazaki-san has pursued most of his adult life, building "Real Sound" musical equipment. If you read his "listening bias" he nails it. I wish I had your skill, still waiting on my DIY brother to come down and guide me installing 4 Arizona Green Cactus capacitors in my Coincident Dynamo. Two of these will replace the Solen capacitors two others will go in the rectifier tube area. Another recommendation is to replace a number of resistors with the Ohmite Brown Devils. After I accomplish this task its on to the rewire of the Tekton speakers with the WE16ga (maybe install Jupiter caps here)?
mikirob
955 posts
 
Yes, Volleyguy1,
It is Back to the Future! It is "real sound!" Or, musicality that gets you close to real flesh and blood musicians and their instruments with their emotion coming through; and not in any old-fashioned syrupy way, but a fusion of the best of vintage meets the best of the New.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Try tajacobs on eBay, the reliable seller. It looks as though he still has some WE16ga stranded tinned copper in black. The color does not matter. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Hi Charles,
I'm really excited and antsy as I must wait for my brother's DIY expertise. It seems like I've been in a holding pattern for a good part of the summer; waiting on the house, waiting to purchase the Franks, waiting to mod the Dynamo and Tekton, waiting, waiting...the good part is I'm not jumping before looking.

I sincerely believe the Arizona Green Cactus capacitor substitution for the Solen in conjunction with a few well placed Ohmite Brown Devil resistor changes from stock in the Coincident is going to Rock. Grannyring has reported he met with success in one of his mods and I believe he stated likes it better than the Jupiter Capacitor overall in that particular application. Will keep you posted. Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
Volleyguy1,
You should likely stick to silver $1,800 dollar or higher priced cables. You obviously appreciate silver and marketing bucks of various cable manufacturers. This is NOS WE wire. No one to market it. When this is gone it is gone. My next line is tongue in cheek with smiley faces: when you get your hearing corrected I'll sell you some of this wire at Cable Company price for Shun Mook cables using this same WE16ga at over $3,000. Small warning, being NOS that price could go higher. Best, Rob
mikirob
955 posts
 
grannyring,
as you might remember I replaced the capacitors in my Coincident Dynamo 34SE with Arizona Green. Huge difference to the good in really every parameter. I have been thrilled for many months. I'm going to try the new Duelund as well. Best, Rob

mikirob
955 posts
 
Grannyring,
thanks for the tip. I think I'll experiment on the Tekton Lores, but not mess with the DeVore 0/96 or Harbeth HL5s. Best, Rob

mikirob
955 posts
 
Yazaki-San sent me the Mallory to strengthen the power supply in the Coincident Dynamo a couple of years ago along with the green Arizona capacitors. Those plus Ohm resistors made the Dynamo
spectacular...Yazaki-san is a gem, a top-notch person as well as very excellent designer of most things audio. Best, mikirob 
mikirob
955 posts
 
Volleyguy1,
read Jeff's Day's latest blog, the article again, I believe Yazaki-san mentions the Mallory there  briefly describing the benefit.

grannyring,
The name is Mallory, made in USA, back in the 40s-60s, I believe; mine is a 30MFD 450VDC, 637-53093 then below that number
235-81460.

I further believe these Mallory caps are extremely difficult to find. I can't help you there. Yazaki-san was kind enough to send me one from his private stash since he made all the suggestions on how to improve the Coincident Dynamo, and improve it is an understatement. The Arizona Green Cactus also upped the ante big time over the stock Solen in the original Dynamo.
The Ohmite Brown Devils with the above combo is just fabulous. Best, Mikirob


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