I should have said " You MADE a huge missing point" not Make a missing point.. Sorry just typing quick at lunch and not thinking about it. |
Ait
"For electronics the Texas Components Z-foil TX2575 resistors"
Yep they are pretty incredible, I used them where they would really count in a phono stage loading the cartridge directly, and for the gain setting... Huge difference in frequency response and transparency. Similar to using a duelund resistor in the speaker which again is not seeing a full range signal, but even much more note worthy in electronics for sure as this really shows full effect.
I belive they are no longer Texas instruments, but now under the Vishay "Naked Z" series.
However for the price you could go broke in no time trying to do a whole preamp or amp. I would just go with them in really critical signal paths and they have great effect. |
So I might be wasting my time here, I will try to collapse my own experimenting over the last year
However, due to the length of this thread I will get to the point for anybody trying to decipher what works best from the beginning in my opinion now.
-Duelund, excellent in Speakers and Electronics
I actually find at their cost that the better application is in full range electronic positions as I am currently using.
-Mundorfs, hit or miss honestly. Certain applications excel using these some not.
-Clarity MR, best all around performer for the money, speakers or electronics.
-Jupiter HT new caps
KILLER in electronics, so close to the Duelunds in tone and natural sound its silly and they are very reasonably priced. I have not heard these in speakers. I would choose these over Mundorfs almost always in a full range application especially due to cost.
-Finally the best overall cost effective way to handle your Highs, and Mids in a Speaker crossover. Sure if you can go 100% Duelund and the cost is not going to make the project just unreachable go for it.
However, bar none so far out of all the Jantzen, Duelund, Clarity cap, Jensen oils, Mundorf oils, and Audiocap Theta's I have heard go with a Base value cap you need from Clarity MR, for example if you need a 1.0 uF go with a Clarity MR, and then BYPASS it with a small Mundorf Silver/OIL no gold needed!
The Clarity MR really is right between the Mundorf Silver/oil and Silver-Gold / Oil Fame in my opinion. And this combo really is the best I have heard using a MR with a Mundorf Silver / oil bypass on it.
I was shocked when I accidentally did this combo, It actually bettered a Duelund VSF in my application and luckily the Duelund was a perfect value to use in my Phono tube amp and was then transferred to that output cap position saving me a TON of money on the speakers now using the MR / Mundorf silver/oil combo.
This cost me something like 20 bucks for the small Mundorf Oils, and around 40 to 80 for the larger Clarity MR's so for under 100 bucks a cap position compared to 200 and 300 for the Duelunds which were not as impressive for the money vs. this combo anyway in my application is the way to go for most.
By the way I have used the Vishay bypass caps as well in this application as mentioned on the Humble capacitor shootouts, they do work well, but for sure add a more "Plastic" sound where the Mundorf Oils really disappear and make everything wider, deeper, and warmer when combined with the MR's.
I cannot explain it, but it is smooth / magic and musical for the cost projects out there, again easily beats all other combos mentioned above, I would stick to Clarity MR, Duelunds, or Jupiters for electronics however depending on the cost and size restraints. |
Honestly very close.
The Duelunds have a very organic bottom end in full range production, the MR is very tight and powerful. It will come down to system synergy. No doubt if your more into tube sounding bass that the duelund will be more like that, the MR is a little more highlighted.
Tuff call, however I do ultimately in a speaker application use a MR but then again in a woofer its a parallel cap, and for output caps I do prefer the Duelunds vs. the MR in some ways. So it will be very difficult to say which is totally better for all applications, however for straight out cost effective I can tell you the MR is right there overall. You have to spend A LOT more to do the duelunds. |
To clarify, I hate bypassing anything as stated above as well, but the MR - Silver OIL combo works very well, it gels nicely, no dual cap separated sound. And again this was simply pointed out in this "Specific case" for a cost effective way to hit the mid's and highs with a little refinement. |
Theaudiotweak,
Honestly I don't know if there is a specific "Golden Ratio" so to speak.
However, I ended up with a 1 uF Clarity MR bypassed by a .1 uF Silver oil... So I guess a 90% to 10% worked well here, but keep in mind I also was low on my value for the crossover point and needed an additional .1 uF anyway, so if your looking to maybe keep a base cap value that you are already using for example you need a 2.2 uF and it should stay there because you do not want to shift your frequency point to much then you can go with a .01 uF to get the flavor mix.
I don't know, the smaller the better is possibly the key for a bypass as some believe, but in some cases a larger bypass depending on the application could be the way to go.
I have also used a "Battery" config in a friends speaker, which is literally one cap that is 2.2 uF then paralleled with another 2.2 uF for a total of 4.4 uF and ended up with excellent results as well...
For electronics I never liked the bypass cap results, speakers it works well if the right mix and application call for it. |
Theaudiotweak,
Honestly, I don't think every speaker has the exact best value for their speaker... Many times I am sure they take the closest thing, and or plus minus up to 10%... And unless its a REALLY pricey speaker probably even in the 10,000 and up range I doubt they are hitting it dead on the head and tuning it with custom values if necessary to really tighten it up.
And for the most part for this thread I doubt most people are looking to crack open their 20 k pair of Ushers, or 30 wilsons etc... and replacing the crossovers...which these guys should have mirrored crossovers very accurate to each other with caps that lay in the upper range of cost anyway, not just caps of the shelf with the values printed, but actually measured by hand again and matched to the pair.
I guarantee with the way this thread started talking about Klipsch 5 k speakers etc... Yes you can do much better than whats in there including the actual values and quality changes. This is I am sure a cost more than just the fact they will not sit and tune it by ear for what sounds best. if it was a 20,000 dollar Usher speaker or something than not so sure, I do believe they go a bit further matching and using higher quality components.
Then again Klipsch sells the 20 k speaker now too, I have seen the crossovers which contain the Benic higher end caps, not too expensive so in a 20 k speaker it could be argued they are out of their league when you go into the nose bleed prices like that and expect at least something like a mid priced Clarity cap or mundorf in there, maybe the benic computer / audio grade caps sounded better in that speaker and the tried Duelunds and Mundorfs, but I doubt it :-) |
Reynolds853,
I have a pair of North creek 8 gauge inductors left over from a project, yes an expensive left over! If your interested they are 1.5 mH, if these are too big you can have them sent for a small fee back to north creek and wound down to your needed size, but at least the copper is saved which is pricey in these. If interested make me an offer. Thanks |
Volleyguy
Well I have seen many which use Rel, Solen etc... Those white body caps in Wilson are likely Rel, probably 5 bucks a cap on some of them, Rel cap last I know was based in California, make several OEM caps under several names, like the Audiocap Thetas, Multicap etc...
All from the same company. Maybe they are soniccaps which are also most likely made by Rel/Multicap as well. Audio research uses them too in electronics. However, that being said does not matter, the point is of course those parts are nowhere in range of what that speaker ultimately costs and most people would not know the difference.
If I personally was crazy enough to spend 50 k on a pair of speakers, then of course knowing what I do I would demand some higher cost parts which will never happen so I just don't buy them!
And I doubt wilsons 100 k per pair speaker uses Duelunds or anything near the cost of them either. These companies charge for their products based on advertising and engineering costs, not so much final material costs which can be high but not as much as you might think, labor etc... And energy used to produce the pair are the biggest costs, not material.
Much smaller and less known name companies charge based on if they use a Mundorf or whatever in the speaker. I know of some, they are good, but still not super cheap.
I can't think of the name of the company that uses Duelunds right now, I think Gryphon is one of them, but anyway the speakers of 80,000 plus a pair is about the lowest I have seen using obscene cost caps.
Regardless open a super high end speaker and some could be shocked that the crossover is worth 100 bucks that crossover is not even within range of the cost of the finished product. But Klipsch your lucky if you have 2 dollars invested in the pair of crossovers! |
Here you go... This is the company I could not think of, Duelund and Mundorf mixed on this one, for a cool 155,000!At least at this price you no matter what get something beyond auricaps or solens!
http://www.tidal-audio.de/english/startenglishprodukte.htm |
Well it is pretty obvious that all combos above would be in the upper echelon of possible crossover choices. I don't see anything wrong with the experiment, but again it all comes down to the total package and sound, and that can vary from design to design I am sure. I have used the Duelund, Clarity combo, but found that 100% Duelund or Clarity were better in my case overall. As for the bypass with the Silver oils and the Clarity MR's that is the best mid cost combo yet I have heard consistentently, and very organic with good dynamics never any edge.
As for the inductors basically the 8 gauge would be the lowest DCR I guess, and yes to some extent in woofers for bass specifically it can help enhance the resolution and lower power level output, in otherwords I recognized that listening at lower levels with these premium inductors helps, at higher levels of volume not as large of a gap. Anyway do some digging, and if you are interested in the pair of 8 gauge I would call northcreek and see what the cost would be for you to reuse them if they would wind them down to a smaller size if necessary, if you need larger than this would do you no good obviously and would be better off just ordering direct. I could ship them to north creek for you and they could ship back to you if it worked out that way. Let me know by email. Thanks |
By the way you plan to run outboard crossovers I assume? Plan for some VERY large outboards if you plan to use the 8 gauge inductors, the ones I have are the size of a Car battery each! |
I can tell you this, I have had the experience of the 8 gauge north creeks vs. the Alpha core / which are probably more or less identical to the Mundorf copper foils. The 8 gauge could have a litte more punch, however the Copper foils can be a little more organic, and "Forgiving" which is a safer bet for many speakers I am sure. Nothing wrong with the 12 gauge copper ribbons as they are overkill for most any application you can throw them at. |
Your saying you have Duelunds on the Tweeters already? If so leave them, when I say 100% one or the other I mean don't mix 2 caps on one Driver, so just go Clarity MR's on the Mids and Woofs then just fine and leave the single Duelund cap on the Tweeter first, thats perfectly fine. I just would not do some kinda 2nd 3rd or 4th order type crossover with more than one cap in the path mixed on one Driver. No reason to waste a perfectly fine Duelund on the tweeter if its complete right now, and just use the MR's on the rest of the drivers is my suggestion, unless I am mis-reading this. Good Luck |
Reynolds853
Not to throw a monkey in the wrench or is it the other way around?
But, I will say this the Jupiter new beeswax "HT" cap is REALLY killer. And I have used this in electronics now as a coupling cap not speakers, it is virtually equal to the Duelund VSF. It is a bit softer than the Clarity MR, and a little warmer than the Duelund, so its somewhere between, they are reasonably priced about what the MR's are at this point I believe.
Not to much info on them, they came out about a year ago I believe. NOT the standard Jupiters, they are HT's for High temperature. They seem to be sold out everywhere I ordered them at the time.
This is another option I can endorse, whether it would provide the absolute resolution of the Clarity MR, or the full organic sense of the Duelund in every case I don't know, but for a fact I can tell you that this cap is very ORGANIC and smooth, with good detail, and even more Robust bass than I have heard from most other caps in electronic full range applications.
Might be worth trying one in your tweeter or something and compare to a MR' of equal value and see where it takes you for small upfront test fee to see the direction, they do take some hours to burn in, at least 25 hours before they open up...
Currently I use all MR's bypassed by the Mundorf Silver oils and have no desire to change this but the SINGLE value Jupiters I feel would be about equal for less money and space needed. Just an option I felt was necessary to throw out there, as I did mention this way back in the thread somewhere and it got lost. Good luck |
By the way I have a pair of 1.0 uF Clarity CAP MR's in excellent shape left over from a project if anybody needs them for a good price. Probably less than 50% for the pair shipped, email me if interested. |
Well I will say this depending on the model of speaker who is to say the DCR was even correct in the first place. Like I said fact is that most manufactures of speakers under 5000 probably don't take account of it at all in the design, mostly looking for the mH, uF values to match as close as possible.
The last 10 years of Klipsch models have proven inferior with 2 dollar crossover parts anyway, I have virtually halved the DCR using Coils from North creek, and Alpha core with actually far better and more transparent sound. Of course this could make a Tweeter sound a little hotter, but then adjustment via the capacitor and or an "ADDED" L pad can tame this nicely even if the driver did not originally have a resistor in the circuit. Sometimes with horns its almost a must to pad them down a bit to smooth them out.
I have not done any heritage models myself accept heard a pair of Cornwalls with new crossovers. I have done the reference series and KLH series etc... And everytime adjustments in original design or values were needed to really compensate for the computer modeled basic crossovers used. Then again I have not dealt much with the "Autoformer" driven Klipsch designs. |
Being you don't have much in the way of choice on speaker position as I assume your stuck in corners via K-Horns, and you are directly replacing networks with just the stock design and values you may have difficulty ever getting this full project exacly where you want to go. Almost everytime I have changed a Cable, a Cap, An inductor it has changed the Toe in - out direction of the drivers, the distance from the walls, the distance between them etc
To compensate for soundstage and frequency shifts.
If your locked into one spot with with something like K-horns its difficult to say how you can easily accomidate any acoustic changes which do occur with new crossover parts. |
First off with all my experience in hand you are going in the right direction minus one thing. If your using 100% the original Klipsch crossover schematic theme on the tweeter than you will get into trouble, meaning they normally only use a single resistor to cut db right at the input of the positive lead going into the crossover section.
What first needs to happen is dump the resistor on the front of the crossover all together. You are restricting the pure capability of the far superior Caps and inductors your loading behind it.
You need to put an "L Pad" at the output of the crossover right before the tweeter driver itself. The results far more natural and wider sound as your allowing the full crossover to saturate with power from the amp itself feeding it, and at the same time not reaping havoc on the impedance the amp is feeding back.
Fact is I had a klipsch horn that was running hot in the first place. It used a single 2 ohm resistor cutting the whole signal right at the input terminal the amp first sees feeding your crossover, which being hooked in parallel with the tweeter, Mid, and Woofer network actually adjusts the signal to all your crossover inputs in my opinion from listening!
If your using Duelund Resistors I will say this vs. Mundorf or Mills I have used they are slightly more "Transparent" in audiophile terms, and "Bright" in Layman terms.
For example my 2 ohm resistor in the original design was cutting lets say 2 to 3 db. However I found with a Duelund I needed to cut 4.5 to 5 db as its just more out of the signal not damping it as much from my experience, this can be a gift or a careful what you ask for result.
Online you will find a debate about the L pad and its placement that should be AFTER the crossover on any design, not BEFORE the crossover as most generic crossovers do in fact have. Huge difference as now you are loading those expensive caps and high current is really feeding the whole system this way.
Also online you will find several L pad calculators that are easy to use, you plug in the 8 ohm impedance you want, and tell it how much DB you want to cut. It will spit out the Parallel resistor and Series resistor Values that should be used. This is the same formula regardless what speaker you use power cutting is the same on all designs, not saying the same amount of power cutting but the same way to cut it with any L pad vs. just a single series resistor.
Trust me it is FAR superior. I was actually cutting with a single 10 ohm vs. the 2 ohm originally, what a mistake it was cutting the bass, tweeter everything across the board as it was raising the impedance too much at the amp tap. Put the L pad after the crossover and with the correct value and the amp will see it as transparent totally making the speaker balance out to its optimum, and you get full use of those expensive crossover components. |
Sp 101's are are specialized Speaker stands, expensive but I think still less than a couple foot of Duelund wire! I have used them in some rooms with luck, they are for large floor standing speakers. Spikes are on both sides of the stand so they are in contact with the bottom of the speaker and the floor, basically making them sorta float removing even more of the floor and room out of the acoustic equation. |
Theaudiotweak,
I have argued this point of testing one stereo channel at a time from the beginning with this project way back... So I just wanted to state it has been pointed out several times. Nobody seemed to care, basically Duelund is a very good cap no doubt. Single or pair fine, but many fine caps that are easily in competition have been looked over and they need to be heard in pairs including the duelunds...
You cannot ultimately take it too serious without a pair working, way to many factors involved, a single fitted inductor on one speaker vs. two will definitely sound harsher, but the combination of 2 higher resolution pieces together can in fact sound smoother and bigger than the originals. Its just not the way it was tested in this thread.
And again it goes back to the point this is one of the harder designs to deal with being a K-horn, your old school, locked into a corner, very difficult acoustic environment and several other factors to feed a system like this. They are good, but its difficult to say ultimately what is working better or not from the info on this thread. |
Volleyguy, Theaudiotweak,
By the way I was not attacking the validity of the thread or posters, maybe it looked like it, sorry. I just had to point it out, because there is a HUGE difference in running the true stereo pair you might think a cap is not that great on one side fine, but guaranteed the results may not be recognizable if you run the whole system as intended so all this talk about "Something sounds plastic", or "To resonant" really does not matter if your not loading the room properly in the first place with true stereo imaging and all hands on deck to evaluate a true components potential.
Face, In a single sentence made the point above, I just like to talk :-)
"Not having a matched pair of speakers throws any spacial comparisons(imaging/soundstage) out the window." |
Duelund's Do NOT mix well with other caps I have found, Crossover, or electrical. Its better to run them all or nothing.
I found however Clarity MR's do mix well with almost anything accept DUELUNDS following them. The Duelunds Stand alone and are hard to beat, but mixing with other caps they are not worth the price of admission unless you go 100% as another poster FACE has agreed with in the past, as well as now it seems Volleyguy is coming to this conclusion as well finally. |
Regismc,
Never heard the Duelund Alexandria's. I have heard the Duelund VSF, and the Clarity MR. Both are great, both can't go wrong. And the only comment on Mixing was directed toward trying to combine another type of cap either bypassing a duelund or in a circuit like a crossover using more than one type or several positions of capacitors, then your better off with all Duelund 100% or all Clarity MR 100%, not a mix of the 2.
As for your amps I am sure both are great, but Clarity MR's I have used in an all Tube preamp with stellar results, and I have used a Duelund VSF in a tube PHONO amp with also zero compromise results.
The VSF may be slightly more natural, the Clarity MR might have a little more detail which doubles as "Airy". Depends on the tubes, if they are very soft or warm it might be a nice contrast using the Clarity MR's as you have already had first hand experience. Also Size consideration physically comes very important in play. If a Duelund or Clarity MR' depending on the Value you need is just too big to fit.
If one of these caps has a smaller body for the comparable value (Alexandria vs. MR) than you might be better off with the physically smaller cap depending on the space you have available as both are winners. The VSF is a bigger flat body almost guaranteed to take more space and may not fit at all, then again depending on the setup might fit better with a big flat cap opposed to a big round body cap. |
By the way as a side note, I am not sure the verdict on (Oil Capacitors) in electronics reliability these days? I know when the Jensens came out 15 years ago and started this whole DIY high end capacitor landslide that some say they did not always survive the test of time without leaking?
I assume the Duelund Oils / Alexandria's are better today, and I am sure better sounding, however I had Jensen oils "Stock" in Balanced Audio Technology amp, and they used these in Tube and Solid state gear. I replaced them with the newer Jupiter HT's a couple years ago, and they are much better... No oil, and they are better than the Mundorf Oils as well.
I am not totally sold on the Oil in electronics, I do like them in Speakers and they will last there due to low heat and voltage. I also owned a CARY Tube mono pair with Jensen oil's, was not blown away, as a matter of fact I found the reliability and sound better from even something like the Jantzen superior Z caps.
So for me I think the MR's or the Jupiter HT's are the best for the MONEY. Duelund Alexandria's are a little more than both it looks like so if you want oil, I don't know myself how oil sounds in comparison to an original Duelund VSF style as this is a very different product for them, but I do know all other oil caps do not compare to a VSF or Clarity MR' so that's just my 2 cents. |
I have used oppo nearly 10 years. Of course not the same one, I have had about 3 players up to the current one as they progressed into blu ray. Great player, great sound, great value. I use with an external DAC, was not all that enthused about modded units, great transport, with a good DAC and I then modded the DAC and was set.
Reason because this DAC can handle any source, not just a spinning disc and it can be modded far further than a player so I keep it separate and flexible as digital has dropped off a cliff in the past 5 years and you can do just as well for 500 now as 5000 10 years ago when I replaced my Wadia with such units. |
Jburidan
I have to say thats a pretty ambitious experiment, so you will need 16 total Clarity MR's at 25 uF? Wow, thats gonna run in the 3000.00 U.S. range, and if you have not seen the size of these your in for one large cabinet to house them! Probably something close to the size of a 18" tall bookshelf speaker size just to fit that many clarity MR's at 25 uF x 8 per speaker and I don't know if you could even jam in the rest of your needed crossover components without a lot more space then that.
I accidentally received some Clarity MR in the 10 uf size once and they were about the size of a small jar of jelly , so I can't imagine how much larger the 25 uF might be. Just as a warning. You might want to see what Duelund offers, maybe you could get 2, 100 uF caps to parallel for the same price, one pair each speaker and save some space, might cost a little more though. |
Well I suggest to all here, don't just rely on one pair of supercaps! Fact is there are many other necessary upgrades to get full potential out of a Duelund or Clarity MR. If you have not pulled out all the generic orange drop stock caps and other peripheries, including sometimes wire, and other Electrolytics in the power supply etc... You will only get a small percentage of sound enhancement.
I just for example went thru and removed all 80 parts in my phono amp, dumped in far higher quality film, and electro caps, along with some silver mica's etc... THEN the final touch was running a pair of Duelund caps on the main outputs with NOS tubes directly hard wired up.
I also did a friends Tube preamp, 100% tube, with 100% built in tube phono stage. The whole thing got large Jantzen superior coupling caps, with a pair of Clarity MR's on the outputs and no bypass caps. Nothing comes close, its amazing, and it had all Mundorfs with Cardas gold caps before that and sounded generic in comparison! There are quite a few high grade resistors, like Bradley's or similar, with solid silver wire.
So lesson is, there is no quick fix without doing it all right. Op amps, or tubes design, sometimes many resistors, caps, power supply mod's, you name it, it all adds up. So as a warning one pair of exotic output caps hooked up to a Chinese special circuit board with 50 other small caps on it that in total cost about 1.75 U.S. will not necessarily net you the best results.
As for the Alexander problem above, that is strange, but as I explained earlier in this thread I now tend to stay far away from any oil based caps inside electronic gear, save those for speakers. |
Grannyring,
Oh don't get me wrong I agree the Alexanders are for your application. What I am saying is I am just not generally a big fan at all of Oil based caps in components period. I have had Jensen oils, Mundorf oils etc
In several designs in the past, never liked them, but in speakers they can shine.
I find they are soft in bass in general. And they have had some reliability questions as well, although I did not have one personally fail. So I am not sure what is happening in your specific situation so I am sorry if you thought it was directed toward your choice of the Alexander, it is very strange what your hearing for sure. |
Grannyring,
What tube preamp is this and what is the output impedance?
This just kills bass if you use a 1500 ohm preamp output with a 10k amp input for sure as an example, I have first hand experience. My first project used a tube preamp like this and I put in Mundorfs back in 2005 later to find out the Solid state amps I had were REALLY low input impedance and were not driven full range due to the combination. Very dead bass, and does not go to the deepest 20 hz its rated at for sure.
I am sure most will say that at "Least" a 10 times difference is necessary. I will say 15 to 20 times is even better.
Now with SS amps I try to keep it 20,000 ohm plus input even more is better like 33,000, 47,000, 100k. Then you have run of the gamut for all preamp choices regardless how high the output impedance gets.
I also switched up preamps due to this problem years ago, now I use a Preamp with as low as 300 and 600 ohm. Some others I have seen like Conrad johnson preamps have super low output impedance some have as low as 50 ohms which will basically drive anything.
But many tube preamps have really high output impedance in the 2000 ohm range, which kills the low frequency on some amp combo's and you need anywhere in the 30k to 100k range to make them work from one end of the frequency balance to the other. |
Room acoustics are at or over 50% of the sound results your system produces. Carpet is okay, but REAL hardwood is better, much better than any other material. Don't use Pergo or that other type of simulated wood floor stuff that is mostly plastic it is the worst sounding I have experienced by doing it once in my listening area before dumping a house years ago.
Once heard on real wood(of course much more expensive, but then again you could probably do a room for 2500 and a Duelund cap costs that much!) you would likely think your hearing a whole new system.
And yes room acoustics have far higher effect on your sound than any one component or trying to balance out via capacitors. I know I pushed this way earlier in the thread originally to posters, but a room is the last to be thought of unfortunately in this game, and really is the first that should be done.
I would take a 30,000.00$ treated room with a pair of 1000.00$ speakers in almost any scenario opposed to a 30,000.00$ speaker and a 1000.00$ room because it can be that a big a difference in most cases! Besides I have heard 1000.00 speakers with good designed crossovers easily compete with nose bleed cost speakers anyway :-) |
Grannyring
Well let me point out, "Floating floors" opossed to on concrete may be exactly as you describe. I have only heard wood on concrete vs. carpet probably a necessary point I did not make.
Also, keep in mind if you go with real wood floors not veneer, you will still absolutely need carpeting in the room! For reflections etc...
So I agree with many points. I may have simplified a little.
You need at least a good solid sized area rug on top of your wood floor out in front of the speakers to add the body to the room, and eliminate a lot of the reflections coming off the floor for sure. Plus most wood floor rooms has some large puffy couches etc... To help sound balance.
Many times in very high end designed dedicated rooms you may even see the wood under the front of the room where most people have the components and of course more importantley the speakers and then the rest of the room carpet(cheaper and effective, but not very resale friendly I am sure). |
I moved my system to the sidewall years ago, HUGE difference... Open up the soundstage, kill a lot of direct vibration, and honestly looks and operates much more ergonomically.
The downside, longer cables, but if you go XLR from preamp to amp in the middle of the speakers, or even better now in my opinion after years of experimenting and just changing over a friends system to this configuration, believe it or not good 20 ft, or 25 ft speaker cables of at least 12 gauge to 9 gauge really sound no different from when I had 2ft of the same cable from mono blocks with the system in the middle of the system.
The offset of having the components )especially analog gear and table) on the side is worth the long speaker cables for sure if you have a room you can pull it off in. |
Duelunds for Sale!
If anyone here has a need for a Pair of VSF 1.75uF capacitors, or Duelund Graphite resistors in the following values resistors are also sold as a pair:
6.0 ohm
8.0 ohm
12.0 ohm
Email me- These are slightly used parts, but simply soldered for testing some parts, other than that mostly like new and ready to install with plenty of length on the leads.
Thanks |
By the way I am selling them for less than half price for the most part with shipping. |
