Can you recommend Jazz for some one that doesn't like Jazz?

@fthompson251

To enjoy Jazz, you need to understand at least two things: 1) Jazz improvisation is a language and 2) there is a general pattern or structure to Jazz performances.

As with any language, it’s best to start out simply, so that you develop an ear for the "alphabet" and the "grammar". You wouldn’t start learning Russian by jumping into a Tolstoy novel! You’d start with single words, then simple phrases, then sentences, then simple conversation, etc.

As far as the structure goes, whether playing a "tin pan alley" standard by someone like Cole Porter or George Gershwin, or a tune written by a Jazz player such as Duke Ellington or Thelonious Monk, what generally occurs is: a main melody or theme is stated at the beginning, then players take turns improvising on that theme, then the main theme is repeated.

You’ve heard this approach in Rock. Take a song like "Jessica" by the Allman Brothers. There is a main theme or melody that is introduced at the beginning and played several times. Then soloists (D. Betts, Les Dudek, Chuck Leavell) take turns improvising on the main theme. Then the main theme gets repeated to close it out.

Jazz is similar, it’s just that the music tends to be considerably more complex and those players who are not soloing tend to be more interactive with the soloist as opposed to Rock, Pop, Country, R&B, Blues, where they stick to prescribed backing parts that tend to remain the same throughout the tune. Note that there are genres/recordings where all the players are improvising at once (typically referred to as collective improvisation) but most Jazz follows the template I’ve described.

To comprehend improvisation on a theme, you need to know the theme, so it’s "playing in your head" while you’re listening to the improvisation. This helps you "make sense" of the improvisation and grasp how the soloist is using the main melody as a basis for creating new melodies, both adhering to and diverging from the main melody. If you cannot hear the main theme/melody, then improvisation may simply sound like a collection of random notes to you!

Naturally, the simpler the theme, the easier it will be to keep track of it.

Having said all of the above, there is no universal law that states that you must like Jazz! Not every genre is for everyone.

I know nothing about smooth Jazz nor do I stream so I can’t be much help with recommendations.

I can suggest listening to music that while not being Jazz, is "jazzy"

"Stardust" by Willie Nelson

"Breezin’" by George Benson

Try Classic Jazz, such as Louis Armstrong

Try jazzy Blues, like "The Real Thing" by Taj Mahal or "One More Mile" or "Alright Again" by Gatemouth Brown. Try vocalist Mose Allison

Try Louis Jordan’s jazzy R&B or Country Swing, such as Asleep At the Wheel.

Jazz had an enormous influence on popular music during the 70’s. Check out vocalists Michael Franks and Al Jarreau. Joni Mitchell released a series of albums very much influenced by Jazz, some even utilizing Jazz heavyweights such as Jaco Pastorius, Pat Metheny, Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock. "Court and Spark" is probably the most accessible. This was the era of Jazz Fusion such as Weather Report, HeadHunters, Return to Forever and Mahavishnu Orchestra as well as "jazzy" bands with more of an R&B flavor such as Stuff, LA Express, Earth Wind and Fire, and the Crusaders, to name a few. Jeff Beck released a series of jazzy albums with "Blow by Blow" being the most celebrated. The CTI label was very popular, generally offering a smoother, more accessible take on Jazz.. There were popular jazzy Latin artists such as Flora Purim and Caldera. There arose a sort of "world music" approach, characterized by bands such as Oregon and Shakti.

The ECM label emerged at this point, featuring artists such as Keith Jarrett, Ralph Towner, Gary Burton, Jan Garbarek and Pat Metheny. It was a cooler, more European esthetic with great sound quality. Some of this music is quite accessible and melodic while some is more abstract. Try "Crystal Silence" by Chick Corea and Gary Burton, "Bright Size Life" by Pat Metheny or "Belonging" by Keith Jarrett.

There is also "bluesy Jazz", such as Stanley Turrentine. Try "the Spoiler" or "Midnight Blue" by Kenny Burrell or "Back at the Chicken Shack" by Jimmy Smith. There is a lot to enjoy in this genre! Mingus could be very Bluesy. try "Blues and Roots".

I apologize for my steam of consciousness, random listing. Pick up something like the All Music Guide to Jazz for a more organized and complete introduction to Jazz and all its sub-genres. Jazz is an enormous genre -- a vivid spectrum incorporating a very wide range of stylistic "colors". Perhaps you simply haven’t been exposed to those parts of the spectrum that appeal to you. Spotify is one way to explore many Jazz/jazzy artists and discover what you might like.

I hope this has been at least somewhat helpful.

 

 

@fthompson251

If you look up Mose Allison on the All Music Guide site or Spotify, you will find suggestions for similar artists. You might find this feature helpful!

Another jazzy Blues album -- "Jazz Blues Fusion" by John Mayall.

Another suggestion for 70’s Latin Jazz would be the first version of Chick Corea’s Return to Forever that recorded "Return to Forever" and "Light as Feather".

OK, I will shut up now! 

 

@fpomposo

I hope you were just kidding . .

Since when does being an audiophile depend upon being a Jazz lover, or for that matter, a lover of any specific genre?

 

@wsrrsw

I think you mean "Swiss Movement" , no?

Thanks for the positive feedback from those who found my comments helpful.

There is of course, much more to Jazz than I mentioned! I'd advise anyone who wants to explore Jazz to get a copy of the All Music Guide to Jazz which does a good job of describing the various sub-genres and movements of this great American art-form. It also offers reviews and recommendations.  

You could also, as has been suggested, watch the Ken Burns series. Just be aware that he spends much of his time discussing early Jazz and then rushes through later movements and developments. It's still worthwhile despite its lopsided focus. 

 

@wsrrsw

I’m 68, so I’m very well acquainted with "brain lapse syndrome" -- it’s "real " enough! ;o)

@mashif 

Most jazz is just too busy and complex for me to enjoy. I like jazz ballads best. Simple and soulful music is my thing. 

Fair enough. There are definitely Jazz recordings that stick to ballads, exclusively. 

@larryi

Still, it is hard to say what will connect with any one listener.

Yes. I’ve recommended music plenty of times to friends. Sometimes, they’re enthusiastic; other times, they show surprisingly (to me) little enthusiasm. There’s a lot that goes into our preferences and while we may be able to come up with objective rationales, I believe much of what drives them is unconscious.

Much as I’ve tried, I’ve never been able to handle Gato’s abrasive screeching. It’s like fingernails on a blackboard to my ears. On the other hand, there are other sax players whose altissimo overblowing doesn’t affect me in the same way. Why? Who knows?

@fthompson251

I am currently listening to some Billy Cobham, I remember listening to him late nights when I was in college. WLAV out of Grand Rapids MI. Also "Hey Joe" by Markusphillippe, Sweet Emotion by Leo Kottke and Mike Gordon. Also "Heard it through the Grapevine" by Bill Frisell. This is stuff I like.

Now I’m really confused. When you bring up Aerosmith in a thread that’s ostensibly about Jazz, you’ve lost me! One of the main differences between Rock and Jazz is the latter's harmonic sophistication. Perhaps this is the stumbling block for you-- you can't actually hear what's going on. This would definitely make it difficult to appreciate Jazz. 

 

 

@fthompson251

You are not ruffling feathers.

Please read my PM.

 

@fthompson251

No scolding. Just stating simple fact. You can call a duck a goose if you want but be prepared for people to tell you "no-- it’s actually a duck". That’s all there is to it. Doesn’t mean they’re trying to give you a hard time. I have no idea why you should take this personally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@tyray

Well, I like "Complete Communion" with Don Cherry.

However, the following displays his "signature" abrasive edge that (contrary to my earlier characterization) is not limited to the upper register of the horn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyszt16CjNo

I’m fine with players who vary the texture of their tone. I simply find unrelieved abrasiveness fatiguing. It’s like a knife with a burr on the blade that "snags" everything it touches.

 

@tyray 

Dunno that I'm any more eloquent than you on the topic of Jazz but thanks for your kind words.  

My first exposure to Gato was something similar... and so, I was quite surprised by what I heard when the needle dropped on the first Flying Dutchman release I'd gotten my hands on!  I do enjoy his note choices/melodic sense. It's just that "edge" that gets to me. But as I've grown older, my tolerance for such things has diminished. When I was young, it was the more "outside" the better. Now, I prefer more consonance. Life is "dissonant" enough!  

@jonwolfpell 

I suspect my transition into Jazz was made easier, having spent so much time listening to the Dead and the Allman Brothers. 

 

@coltrane1

I believe that’s because most haven’t developed an ear to appreciate it. And yes, it helps if you’ve played an instrument to give you greater technical understanding.

I think those of us who play instruments have a much more developed ear for music in general. I agree that this can be a big help.

@saboros

Agreed. Wayne Shorter’s Blue Note recordings were in fact my first non-fusion Jazz record purchases. Believe it or not, I bought them because of the cool cover art! Then I played them and fell in love. Those Shorter albums are still favorites of mine. And, his very first Blue Note "Night Dreamer" is perhaps the most accessible, because the heads are so simple and easily hummable.

@tyray

FYI: Jaimo PLAYED with James Brown ! ! !

In the liner notes of one of the "Kind of Blue" reissues (can’t keep ’em all straight) there are quotes from Duane Allman about his love for Miles. He loved Coltrane, too. In high school, we used to stay up all night listening to music and the Fillmore album was in heavy rotation. I can still sing along to long stretches of the solos on Whippin’ Post and Elizabeth Reed. That music is deeply embedded in my brain!

@ezwind

Not really, if you know the melody. It’s not like I’m making it up myself, which is how I define scatting -- improvisation in the moment, when a singer utilizes their voice like a horn to create new melodic lines.

Yes -- I’m aware of what you state about the Dead. It could be said that Garcia’s awareness and utilization of chord tones in his soloing was more akin to how a Jazz player would solo, as opposed to the more typical (For Rock) approach of overlaying a scale or two over a progression. (The Son’s Terry Haggerty was another). I’m a huge fan of Weir’s playing and know about his admiration for Tyner.

The thing is, for me, the Dead don’t sound much like Jazz. Much of their music is very major-sounding, as opposed to dominant-sounding. They may have been as influenced by Jazz as the Allman Brothers, but to my ear, the sound of Jazz is much more evident in the music of the Allmans -- not only harmonically, but rhythmically. The Allmans swung! Nevertheless, the Dead’s improvisatory approach definitely helped open me up to Jazz.

However, when I think about it, it was actually Stevie Wonder who probably had greatest influence in this regard -- particularly "Innervisions". That really opened my ears, not only in terms of listening, but it made me want to expand my chordal knowledge and understanding on the guitar. I began trying to transpose his piano chords to guitar, which in turn made me realize many of the guitar chords in the Innervisions "songbook" I’d bought were inaccurate. But I digress.

@garrettc

Wes Montgomery's guitar playing is jazz, but he's very lyrical

 

Your insertion of  "but" makes it sound as though lyricism is a rare exception in Jazz. Not to my ear!  

@garrettc

Got it. I think I’m the one who owes you an apology for jumping to conclusions!

BTW, I enjoy lyrical Jazz, too. As an example, as I type this, I’m basking in the lyrical beauty of Mr. Stan Getz. The album is "Bossas and Ballads".

@theskipperthree

I’ve had the same experience. People have said "you actually like this?" and "It sounds like they’re playing two or three songs at once". Clearly, not all music is for everyone but which factors come into play in any given case can be difficult to pin down. 

 

@tyray

You’re right-- it was Otis Redding! My bad.

From interview:

I remember one day down in Muscle Shoals, I figured I’d been there long enough, so I asked Duane Allman, "Man, tell me something, why do you want to have two drummers?" And he said, "Because Otis Redding and James Brown had two drummers." So I didn’t ask him anything else, I said something like, "Well, that’s cool, because I was one of the drummers with Otis."

 

 

@ezwind

Yes, the Dead’s jazz influences don’t show up as consistently as with the ABB, probably because their music encompasses a lot more different musical styles and genres. But you can certainly hear it in songs like Eyes of the World, Bird Song, Crazy Fingers, and some versions of Dark Star. And the band would swing a lot more when Kreutzmann was the sole drummer for a few years in the early 70s.

Sure. I don’t contest any of the above. Comparing the Allmans to Jerry and the boys, I meant, overall. I much prefer Kreutzmann on his own. IMHO, he didn’t need any help!  Like Mitch Mitchell, he has a "slippery" feel. I prefer this approach to heavy handed "bashers".  

 

@tyray 

During the mid 70's, the Dead displayed a Jazz influence insofar as incorporating chord changes beyond triads and modal improvisation. Odd time signatures were already part of their approach. But so did many many artists at that time. None were playing Jazz, as I see it.

I'd say Steely Dan and Stevie Wonder were on a whole other level in this regard.

Others may disagree. 

@tyray

Now Stevie Wonder, after his albums Talking Book, Music of My Mind and Innervisions to me he and his music were uncategorizable and completely Transcendental.

I think of S. Wonder generally as R&B infused with Jazz harmonies. But, as he’s not only unique but also a genius, he’s in his own category! I love those 70’s recordings, too. 

@acman3

I wonder if the OP realizes you’re joking. . .

You ARE joking, right? 

@2psyop 

Tones and rhythm are probably not enough if one doesn't grasp the significance of the notes being played. This seems to be a major stumbling block for those who do not like Jazz. It apparently sounds like a random jumble of unrelated notes, rather than a cogent expression utilizing a recognizable language. It's difficult to become addicted to something that one experiences as inherently off-putting.