2. amps-preamps
  3. 183898-20855

Can we create a consensus list of the TONALITY of different amps/preamps/brands?

Greetings to any and all,

I am shopping for a new amp and preamp, but stuck abroad so unable to purchase anything right now. I have thus been reading lots and lots of reviews.
One thing that is very important to many of us is finding the right balance of Tonalities (warm versus cool, musical versus analytical, smooth versus detailed, etcetera).

Somewhere in all that research, I came upon a reviewer who started a comparative list of different brands, trying to get a handle of the general Tonality of various audio brands or individual products.  Since then I have been adding to that list, sometimes extrapolating from the adjectives used (e.g. clean, neutral, etched, sweet, etc.).

One thing I should admit right off the bat is that I have personally listened to very few of these products. (I am just the collector of comparative adjectives, just a compiler. In no way do I consider this present list to be definitive or perfectly correct.) Of course, all this is completely subjective.

So I wonder if there is a way we can created a consensus compilation of opinions of the general tonality of various audio products. I am obviously soliciting input and opinions. Please feel free to disagree or suggest changes or refinements. The model I started with was of a clock face: 12:00 midnight being perfectly neutral. Anything after 12:00 is more analytical or clinical; anything before 12:00 is smoother or warmer.
(Thanks for any responses or contributions.)

 

Here is that list:

Halcro: 1:30 (hyperdetailed solid-state)

Simaudio amplifiers: 1:00 (even more clinical, analytical)

Audio Research Ref10 pre: slightly less cool than Simaudio 850p; maybe 12:30

Esoteric integrated: 12:30 (slightly to the cold, clinical side)

Boulder 1160/1161/2060 amps: 12:00 dead neutral (adding or subtracting nothing, no added tonal saturation, "sterile")

Rotel Michi M8: 11:45 ("kiss of midband lush")

Simaudio pre: 11:45 ("closest sounding amp to the Luxman")

Luxman 900 series: 11:30 (very slightly warmish)

Plinius SA-103: 11:30 ("natural, neutral tonal balance")

Pass X150.5: 11:15

Accuphase: 11:00 (warmer than Luxman)

Pass X250.8: 11:00

Pass x 260.8: 10:45

Pass XA 60.8/200.8: 10:30 (warm or saturated side)

Pass XS Pre: 10:30

VAC i170 tube amp: 9:30 (warmish)

PrimaLuna EVO 400 tube amp: 9:00 (warmer still)

hoodjem
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,615 posts
 

@hoodjem If you want correlation, here's what needs to be done:

1) show the distortion spectra of each amp

2) show the frequency at which distortion rises.

Rising distortion with frequency usually isn't a good thing. Ideally it should be a straight line. THD doesn't tell you everything, because usually its measured at a frequency too low to show the rising distortion. As a result, distortion can be quite a lot higher at higher frequencies than the THD otherwise suggests.

Distortion spectra is important since it will show what harmonics are audible or not. For example, if there is a lot of the 2nd and 3rd they might be able to mask the higher ordered harmonics. If the higher ordered harmonics are not masked, they can contribute to harshness and brightness, two common complaints about solid state (which is why tubes are still around 60+ years after being declared 'obsolete').

These are engineering problems that are solvable and some do it better than others. So now you have something to look for in the measurements (if you can find them; these measurements are not always published).

 

 

hoodjem OP
19 posts
 

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2548923
"What…No McIntosh…conversation done!"

 

I would love for you to suggest a time-number (or position) for any McIntosh

amps or preamps, with which you are familiar.  That would be most helpful. 

hoodjem OP
19 posts
 

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2548923

"hoodjem. Pls explain your numerical grading."

The numerical grading was based on a partial list started by a professional audio reviewer that I read somewhere along the way. He was the person who first suggested the notion of a clock face using 12:00 as absolute neutral tonality.

Since reading that review and list, I have tried to add to it whenever possible.  But only if the reviewer makes a specific comparative remark about a brand or component that is already on the list.  For example, if the author compares the reviewed unit to a Boulder 2060 amp--on the list at 12:00--and says the reviewed unit is "slightly warmer," then I might extrapolate that the reviewed unit should be at 11:45 or 11:30. 

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