Can the Totem Hawk Rock?


I was told by a dealer, who distributes both Totem and B&W that the Hawks are superior in every way to the B&W 704 except for volume (Note: the 704 is an excellent speaker). This particular dealer does not stock the Hawk, because he stocks the Staff and claims the two are so close in sound. I already know from second-hand research that I would prefer the Hawk over the Staff. However, I hate to ask the dealer to bring in the Hawk specially for me if there’s a chance I might not like their sound - thus my thread. I appreciate quick detail, image and clarity, a good soundstage, etc., but I do like to crank up the volume when the wife and kids are away. I'm from the old-school and like to "feel" the music right in my chest. When the dealer said the Totem's wouldn’t play as loud as the B&W's I thought I should ask you Agoners before I drive 3 hrs to listen to a pair of speakers that the dealer would have to bring in specially for me to demo. I've demo'd the 704's and was impressed with their ability to play loud, but I was not that happy with their overall sound.
Note: My listening room is small (12 x 15) - due to layout, I'm forced set up and listen between the shorter distance (12 feet). I can bring the speakers out 18 - 20 inches without freaking the wife out too much (that is the max though!)

Thanks in advance to your responses. Keep in mind, my budget is only $2,200.00 max. so no need to remind me of all the really great, but pricey, speaker choices.
2chnlben

Showing 2 responses by exertfluffer

..."I would not agree with Exertfluffer on driving these speakers into distress unless you cross them over at 80hz."

This statement doesn't make any sense! First, the Hawk is a 6 ohm, 86 db, two way design with one tweeter and a small 5 1/4 inch driver! This speaker, even with a 1000 watt per channel amp(or biamped for that matter) needs ALL THE HELP IT CAN GET TO HANDLE ANYTHING WITH REAL DYANAMICS!!!! Also, if you did cross those FLOORSTANDING "BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS"(which is what they are) over at 80hz, you would be getting much better dynamic control and power handling with these, because you'd be taking all the demanding bass load off of them, which would make your amp/speaker combo sound much much much more dynamic, controled, powerful, composed, un-compressed, and distress-free!! Your powered sub would then bring in the demanding bass dubties, just like any properly set up home theater or THX system. These low sensitivity, small driver music speakers can't handle the goods at any reasonable level with any level of control, impact, power, dynamics and or authority! They'll sound like small speakers in dire need of help if you really push them..and not just to 115 db! This speaker recommends on it's website "107 db" peak potential!!!!!...that's the extreme outside!. With an 86 db rating(not to mention small woofer) you would reach 106 with a hundred what amp. This is the outstrech of what they are recommending in terms of volume. yes, a larger amp will help control. But still, compresshion, distress, distrotion, and the outer limits will be quickly reached.
Then again, don't take my word for it. Just go buy them and try them! I mean you have the itch, right? Then, just plunk in some Techno, Metalic, rap, or even HT movies, play em full range, and just listen to those drivers beg for mercy!..not to mention the sound will be less than composed and powerful! Then, you can cross em over to a sub, and hear IMMEDIATE DIFFERNCE AND IMPROVEMENT DYHAMICALLY!(by the way, this is how THX recommmends things for a reason...passive speakers can't deliver mostly full range...they need help).
So when you pop in "Fluke" (track: "Absurd"). YOu'll know what I mean.
Seriously, if anyone here thinks a little 5 1/4 inch driver is going to rock your socks off, you are sadly mistaken! These are not pro audio, active, or large horn speakers with big bass woofers. They are dainty audiopile spaekers,that have serious dynamic limits. They can' be made to play hard and strong, but you must crossover and do bass managment of some sort, and enlist acxtive woofer as help. Sorry...that's the way it is. I've worked in 6 high end stores over 15 years, and done custom for many of those...not to mention I'm an avid 2 channel and HT junkie, who's constantly tweaking and trying out different gear for a living and hobby! I've "been there and done that". You can't expect small speakers to just change the laws of physics.
Anyway, the bottom line for you is to try this speaker and some combo's or setup preferences and see!
I'm just saying, if you think you'll pop in any hip/hop, heavy dynamic pop/rock/techo/whatever, and just wow your friends and neighbors with those dinky dudes, rethink. It's not going to happen. You'll be the only one excited, trust me. If you like those speakers enough, and listened, then consider bass managment(which effectively partially actively bi-amp's them) for rock dubties. Either way, you'll find out real quick.
Hey listen, I've sold Wilson's, Dunlavy's, Celestion, Meridian's, B&W's(not bettered by Totem, sorry), Totem's(complete line), Jm Lab's, Martin Logan, Aud Physic, NHT, Paradigm, Mirage, Maggies and Apogee's, Thiel, Def Tech, Sonus Faber, Boston, Polk, Klipsch, Infinity, and many others. And if Speakrs like Wilson WATT Puppies or Dunlavy SC1V's can't rock to their potential without some help, than neither can your delicate 86db 5" speakers! So be realistic.
BTW, The Mani two's don't have the greatest treble, and their bass is a bit thick and lumpy(as with most issobaric loaded woofers), and the Totem model 1's are soft and lack detail(compared to any of the B&W's Matrix or Nautilus series, which aren't as detailed as others even, yes!)
Rock?...realistically, at modest levels, rock'in would really need those speakers to be subwoofer assisted. I know I could easily send those drives into audible distress, compression, distortion, you name it. My suggestion for people wanting to rock with speakers such as these(by the way, the long wall will get you better sound easier likely, wiht less tinkering) is to cross em over with a pre/pro and enlist the help of a sub! Trust me, full range through a smaller passive speakers like those is going to be limited with high dynamic source material, most definitely. letting em play down to about 80hz crossed over yields 100-200% better dynamic range and headroom easily. yes, you might potentially sacrifice ultimite purity with some pre/pro's this way for music, but you more than gain in the dynamics. And, with some pre/pro's you can use "dirrect through-put" for more purity. Or, if your CD/DVD player is just so-so digitally, go digital dirrect and process that way...otherwise, leave your standard 2 channel set up for more delicate chores.
Basically, if you like the Totems(you'll have to listen), and you want to rock, you need to maximize dynamics, and some compromises might be necesary. Thus is the nature of the beast with passive setup's like yours. If you doubt, just pop in "Fluke/Absurd" or most any Metalica cut into your system playing full range (w/o a sub, full range) and listen to your speakers crying for help!..not to mention flat distorted, undynamic sound overall.
As for your concern about buying the Totems, I don't get it. Buy em and sell em if you don't like. I don't understand people's thinking they'll find the ultimate sound with "one shot"!...it don't work that way. Try em in your room/system and you'll know. Otherwise, you'll only assume/guess. It's a hobby..it takes time. Throw it out there and see. If you're unwilling to "make second best chioces" with this stuff, you'll never know anything. Besides, they won't be your last speaker anyway. There's always more latter..trust me.