Can SMPS based preamps/amps sound organic ?


Lately I have been reading about some well known companies who make amps and preamps based on switch mode (digital) power supply. Nagra, David Berning, Linn, Crayon Audio comes to mind. I have heard a couple of their products but I always seem to hear some kind of switching noise which comes through as "digital" sounding. The organic quality is somewhat robbed and replaced with some hash. I wonder if there are any designs using SMPS that can actually sound natural and organic ?

To me it seems mostly a matter of convenience to use SMPS but I would love to discuss.
pani

Showing 8 responses by bombaywalla

but I always seem to hear some kind of switching noise which comes through as "digital" sounding.
hmmmm.....I wonder if you are imagining this? How did you trace/pinpoint the "digital" sound to exactly the SMPS in the preamp/amp?

I wonder if there are any designs using SMPS that can actually sound natural and organic ?
sure! At RMAF2013 I heard the Rowland 625 driving a Raidho stand-mount & it sounded very good. For the limited time that i was in the room on Sat & Sun I could not find any obvious faults. I, of course, discounted the fact that the Raidho, no matter how good, could not reproduce deep bass.
There’s been rave words said about the Merrill Veritas amp which also uses a SMPS power supply. If I'm not mistaken Bel Canto Black is another example.
There must be many others out there.....

SMPS used for convenience?
Maybe. At one point i was talking to a well-regarded engineer at a class-D amp manuf & was informed that SMPS in amplifiers are just about coming into their own. Their fault, as you stated, was high(er) output noise for audio applications. We already used SMPS in other audio applications such as cellphones as the audio quality does not matter as much (different application & diff specs). I was informed, by this engineer, that the highlight of the Hypex NCore N1200 amplifier module was its SMPS. And, the final goal for any class-D amplifier was to use both a SMPS power supply + SMPS amplifier module.
I'm doing well. thanks for asking. I see that you are also doing well & growing by leaps & bounds as an audiophile. :-)
thanks for your feedback, Pani. Now your original comments make a lot more sense. Would have been nice if you had stated all this in your 1st post to give all of us a background where you were coming from. ;-)
anyway, it looks like we have a variety of opinions on this topic from several owners & listeners..... 
kijanki,
Roger Sanders makes a regulated linear power supply for his Magtech amp which can drive his ESLs. Here is the link to that white paper:

http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/161-the-magtech-regulated-power-supply-wp

And, i believe that he has a patent on this power supply architecture....
welcome Kijanki.
the Magtech regulated power supply looks like a switching regulator but it is not a traditional SMPS (like the kind used by Rowland, Linn, Benchmark, etc) but it looks to me that it is some sort of Pulse Frequency Modulated (PFM) switching regulator - it monitors the pulsating waveforms out of the regulator & the rail voltages (it seems that the system has some knowledge of min rail voltage & max rail voltage & what the acceptable ripple should be) & when the rail voltage goes below the min, it multi-pulses until the rail voltage reaches the max & then shuts off. Cycle repeats when the rail voltage falls below min. 

2ndly, it seems that the Magtech power supply is very much like the multi-voltage used by ARCAM in their class-G amplifiers. see this link:

http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/a49/Class%20G%20Explained/Class_G_the_ultimate_amplifier_technology_150714_A.pdf

the Magtech regulated power supply looks like a class-G PFM regulated power supply......

Thanks for the clarification, Almarg.
The fact that the 2013 patent application (I believe it was 2013 & not 2003) has not issued seems par for the course. I had one patent application issue in 2015 when it was filed in 2011. 
Re. the 'patent pending' on his Magtech regulated power supply - not finding any patent application or issued patent is a mystery indeed....
Like you wrote - maybe he never pursued a patent & the other press is now old & written words cannot be retracted today? 
SMPS is basically a power regenerator.

I'm sorry this is not a correct statement.

You take in the AC & convert it to a high(ish) ripple DC & then feed that into a SMPS & you get a tightly regulated DC power supply.

For a linear power supply you do exactly the same - You take in the AC & convert it to a high(ish) ripple DC & then feed that into a LPS & you get a tightly regulated DC power supply.

So, if SMPS is a power regenerator then so is the LPS.

A SMPS is a DC-DC converter (& so is the LPS).

When you speak of a power regenerator then you take in the AC from the wall outlet, convert it to DC & convert it back to AC (say, like the PS Audio P300/P600/P1200  power regenerators).