Cables that measure the same but (seem?) to sound different


I have been having an extended dialogue with a certain objectivist who continues to insist to me that if two wires measure the same, in a stable acoustic environment, they must sound the same.

In response, I have told him that while I am not an engineer or in audio, I have heard differences in wires while keeping the acoustic environment static. I have told him that Robert Harley, podcasters, YouTuber's such as Tarun, Duncan Hunter and Darren Myers, Hans Beekhuyzen, Paul McGowan have all testified to extensive listening experiments where differences were palpable. My interlocutor has said that either it is the placebo effect, they're shilling for gear or clicks, or they're just deluded.

I've also pointed out that to understand listening experience, we need more than a few measurement; we also need to understand the physiology and psychological of perceptual experience, as well as the interpretation involved. Until those elements are well understood, we cannot even know what, exactly, to measure for. I've also pointed out that for this many people to be shills or delusionaries is a remote chance at best.

QUESTION: Who would you name as among the most learned people in audio, psychoacoustics, engineering, and psychology who argue for the real differences made by interconnects, etc.?
hilde45

Showing 1 response by kijanki

I'm not sure you can find two cables that measure the same.
Impedance of the cable will change with frequency.  It is also very difficult to measure capacitance or inductance since it is "distributed" inductance and capacitance - one affects another.  It can be done by measurements at different frequencies and calculations, but it might be not very accurate.  Even such simple thing as DC resistance will change with temperature increase (with current).  Metal and construction of the cable make a difference.

After that you have other effects, like dielectric absorption or skin effect (that starts at gage 18 for copper at 20kHz).  12 gauge wire uses only 75% of it size at 20kHz (Belden data).

In addition construction of the cable is important.  Even speaker cable is electrical noise entry into amplifier.  Twisting of the wire, including twist pitch plays a role.  How do you measure quality of interconnects shielding?

Of course, one can say "It measures close enough" or "it should not matter", but it is only an opinion and not a proof.  IMHO, the only sure way to find two cables that measure exactly the same and have exactly the same noise rejection is to buy the same cable twice.

When you hear a difference between cables it means they must be different (measure different, different construction etc.)
The only other possibility is placebo effect, but there is nothing wrong with it, as long as it works :)

I would not dare to tell other people what they can or cannot hear, especially when my hearing is not getting any better with age.