cable dielectric cause of artificial sound


Hi folks, I would like to know what your opinion is about the following issue. About 90% of high-end cable manufacturers use PTFE as dielectric. Many of their cables sound much alike and they have a few of these characteristics in common: clean, relaxed and laid back sound but at the same time very dynamic (though a bit artificially), very quiet ("black background"), very good (also artificially) left/right separation. But I think albeit these traits, they tend to sound "technicolored", "sterile" and unengaging (lacking PRaT also). Some cable manufacturers are using bleached cotton as dielectric. These cables sound different: they have more natural dynamics, a mellower sound, more intimate soundstage, more tonal colors and so on. Are these differences mainly due to the dielectric material used? Why is for so many manufacturers PTFE still the ultimate dielectric for the use in audio cables?

Chris
dazzdax

Showing 2 responses by artizen65

Scar,

I am afraid I agree with a lot of what Steve says. Below is a post with 2 links in it I suggust you read.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1160450950&openmine&zzArtizen65&4&5#Artizen65

What you are refering to is skin effect. Now in my training 100mhz and above is where skin effect really starts to matter. In the link above it deals with skin effect in the audible frequency range. Now I have been told by an EE friend of mine that it is a weak proof.

Not that I now necessarly agree with him at this point in my life strictly from a theoretical stand point not a mathimatical one.

If you start at 1hz the electrons use the whole wire as the frequency increases the electrons migrate to the outside of the conductor. It is not untill your reach the upper frequency's that you actually get into the skin effect theory. It is at these frequencies that the dialectric becomes more of a factor as the electron interaction between the conductor and dialectric becomes more acute.

It is at this point where I might disagree with Steve from a theoretical standpoint. Oxidation will decrease the interaction between the conductor and dialectric and could possibly affect the upper frequency range of the cable. This could have a positive affect or a negitive affect it depends on the frequency and the level of oxidation and or corrosion. IMHO in the lower frequencies it should have no affect at all.

Three major things things come into play with the conductor, material used, purity and quality of the extrusion. Imperfections in the conductor be it purity or vairing raidi of the conductor will affect electron flow through the wire. This will have more of an effect at higher frequencies than at lower frequencies.

Silver has a slightly higher frequency response than copper in the 20hz to 20khz range. Hence why some people perceive silver as being brighter than copper.

So lets assume that skin effect exists in the upper frequency range of the audible band 20hz to 20khz. Other than preventing corrosion or oxidation of the conductor the dialectric should be selected for minimum interaction with the electrons in the conductor. It is this reason that air is the best dialectric. It by nature attracts the fewest electrons from the dialectric or has the least negitive impact by passing stray electrons to the dialectric which allows the electrical signal to stay more completly in-tact as it travels down the conductor. Keep in mind this has a lot more affect in the upper frequencies than the lower frequencies.

Ok I am all tapped out for now although there is more I suggust you read the two links posted in the other thread.
There is also a paper on the same site about wire topology.
Dpac,

Since you seem to be into math and proofs I suggust you read this.

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Scots_Guide/audio/skineffect/page1.html

I was going to stay out of this thread after my initial post but it appears that like Sean said one must think outside the box.

Remember there are 3 basic theories electron flow, hole flow and transfer of potential. Which of these theories applies depends on when and where you went to school.

You need to read my previous post and the link. And as for credentials mine are not as impressive as some others on this site. 7.5 years as a Navy electronic technican. Schooling is the equivelant of an AS EE degree. 7.5 years as a digital switch design engineer.

Dpac electronics is PFM period. As an example there was a 100 Mhz reference oscilator in a spectram analizer providing 200 Mhz out of the calibration output. With 4 amplifer stages off of the oscilator. The analizer worked fine in all respects. The problem was a cracked base biasing resistor for the 4 amplifer stages which was in the crystal oscilator circuit. If you can tell me why I might give you knowledge some creedence. Because I already know why and it is not PFM.