Built-in vs. Standalone DACs

@drrsutliff Thanks for chiming in. It's good to know that high end manufacturers like Gryphon take the integrated DAC architecture very seriously as is evident by their innovative approach towards powering the module. I remember reading somewhere that Gryphon consider the shorter path (no additional cords) as an advantage.

BTW, lovely system you got :) I love how you enjoy your digital and analog systems and have worked to bring parity between the two. I bet the Diablo and Rockport combo along with the Wolf streamer is kickass.

Boulder is another company who is serious about integrating DACs in their higher end amps.

@gdnrbob I agree with you regarding the flexibility argument. No doubt separates gives you the ultimate freedom to upgrade and experiment. If you look at my virtual system you will see that I have, and always had, separate DACs. The Denafrips Terminator 2 DAC that I have is fantastic and I love the sound.

Having said that, I don’t know if the technology in DACs is evolving as fast as we think. Before I got the Denafrips, I was running a Luxman DA-06 which despite being a 12 year old design can still stand up to many modern DACs.

I did briefly try a Hegel H390 and it’s built-in DAC a couple of years ago. At the time, I was not very impressed. I wonder if the outcome would have been different had I tried it with a higher quality external DAC. Who knows?

But regardless, I think the DAC modules that companies like Gryphon, Aavik, Accuphase, and ARC are integrating with their amps are a cut above the rest. If you set aside the flexibility argument for a moment, I think these integrated DACs (as @drrsutliff can attest to) provide excellent SQ since the designers make fewer compromises.

@ronboco 

The DAC in my Boulder 866 is the same as their stand alone. 

Thank you for sharing your impression. I think some might say that the Boulder standalone dac might still be better (SQ wise) since it has a separate chassis, power supply, and is probably better isolated due to this. Did you get a chance to compare both?

Great comments and feedback!

I know some folks might feel that paying an extra $5-7k for a built-in DAC module on some of these higher end integrated amps might seem like a lot. But when you factor in the cost of a good power cord and interconnects, it doesn’t sound like a bad deal.

Either way, I’m running an experiment this week. I’m auditioning an Aavik U-280 which has a built-in DAC that’s supposed to be excellent. I will compare the Aavik to my Qualiton a50i and Denafrips Terminator 2 combo. I will also run the Aavik with the it’s internal dac as well as the external dac (T2). Will be an interesting comparison.

@audiotroy Interesting that you have started carrying the Aavik line. What do you think about their S-180 streamer when compared to 432 Evo?

+1 @gdnrbob 

I completely agree with you. When it comes to flexibility -- including, the ability to change/upgrade/experiment, serviceability, etc., separates take the cake 100% of the time. That's why I wanted to focus purely on SQ for the purpose of this discussion. No argument on the flexibility aspects. However, having a built-in DAC doesn't mean you can't connect an external DAC in most cases.

@mahler123 That’s exactly what I wonder about as well. I recently talked to a couple of designers of higher-end ($20K+) audio equipment and my understanding is that they put in significant R&D efforts to avoid the usual pitfalls of integrated DACs at lower price points. They also mentioned that having a shorter signal path and less buffering along the way often results in better results.

At least one of the designers is confident that his built-in DACs are as good as separates at around the same price point. For example, if he charges an extra $6k for a DAC module, he is quite certain that this DAC will sound just as good as a separate DAC unit at the same price point. Obviously, a separate DAC which is more expensive, say > $10K, will sound better.

@lafavetl I think it is a difficult question to answer without knowing the rest of your system and your budget. I have never owned an Oppo, but from what I hear a number of people who tried an external dac with Oppo were reasonably happy. 

@lalitk Agreed. Although, I think the gap between separates and integrateds has shrunk a bit in recent years. This is especially true for amps in the $15K plus range for sure. I think your Accuphase is a good example of what I'm talking about ... it will run circles around many separates in the same price range. Just my opinion.