Build a new system around pair of Snell Alll's?

Thanks for your response. Your strong endorsement certainly makes me consider otherwise.

Frogman, any suggestions of modern tube amps to consider? Is my impression incorrect that to get into at least 300wpc for tubes is some really serious dough?
Thanks

I certainly don't feel I get no depth even with the AIII and B&K combo. As I think Frogman implies, it's just that the shallowness is more noticeable with so much other wonderful presence from the music.

Turns out there's a well established vintage shop here in Austin and I plan to speak with them tomorrow. The Jadis D7 looks interesting but I can't get away from feeling the need for more power. Interesting to FM's first reply, there's a pair of VTL 300's on ebay. Supposedly working. I'll discuss with the local vintage guy.

BTW, I got my Snells from the original owner about five years ago. Came with original boxes and packing. I sent them directly to Snell for a complete check up. Ended up having the woofers rebuilt which took over six months because Snell was resourcing new supplier. They're amazing.

Also own pair of Snell EIII's and Ci's. Added a Snell LCR and their 300 powered sub to complete the HT setup.

Look forward to really unlocking the AIII's. I can feel the potential is there but still unopened.

Thanks

Thanks all for the input. Much appreciated. Will keep the news coming.

If I stay SS, what about just using the B&K as the preamp?

I've made contact with a local HT installer that carries Mcintosh, Classe, Rotel and some Peachtree. He's offered to let me bring the AIIIs in to his listening room fr comparison. Theyre in climate controlled storage now and it'll be a hassle but I have the time and it'd be fun. Will get to hear some tubes I think. I'm watching the boards for a Rowland as suggested. There's a Rowland dealer in San Antonio but haven't made contact yet. The house has got about six months of remodeling so I do have opportunity to look around.
Thanks

I talked to the San Antonio dealer and will go to hear some stuff he's got next week. For the AIIIs and based on my B&K experience, he's suggesting I consider the ModWrights. Will listen to this Rowland 625 as well....

Well, I listened today to a mc integrated and the classe ca2300. It's clear to me that I'm a neutral reproduction kinda guy. I listened to two - mc252 and mc452 - and the warmth was distracting for me. Softened edges too much. One room was too dampened but the other was fine. All were hooked up to B&W 801 s

Frogman I stand corrected. The intergrated I listened to was the mc 7000. The other mc was the mc452 with a C48 Pre. You're right, I'm taking the Snells there next week, this was just a run to see the set up and rooms. Wanted to see what I was getting into before hauling those behemoths out. I'm also going to hear the Rowland and ModWright set up next week but will do the same before hauling the Snells there. That's a two hour drive.

Both the Macs were what might be called too warm for me. Am I so accustomed to the "live" Snell and B&K sound??? That's how I'd describe the Classe difference that was more appealing to me. More live. Do you think the Snell neutrality will balance the Mc warmth? Very anxious to hear them hooked up to all the set ups there.

Very cool and fun. Im definitely keeping an open mind but it seems this tatse difference may be the great audiophile divide....:) Thanks.

Frogman, Sorta been occupied with other stuff lately. My current direction is headed towards a tube pre with strong SS amps. The combo that really lit the Snells was the Audio Research Ref 5 and the Sanders Magtech. I'm watching for a Ref 3 as a possible substitute and still haven't heard the JC-1's. Which I really want to hear. The house remodel is taking longer (who could've guessed, right?) so I still have time to continue the search. Thanks for checking. Best.

FM, I'm taking the Snells for the MC and Classe reviews tomorrow. I'm fairly certain there's no tubes in the shop but I will definitely check and press to review if there. I've found a ARC dealer in town but he's not open until Tuesday. I pretty sure he's got tubes as well as Bryston. Then I go out of town to hear the Rowland and the Modwright which does have a tube(ish) pre. I'm having a ball (this is sorta my vacation time) and will keep it up as long as they'll let me! I'e decided I will hear these babies driven by tubes (maybe several amps) before I spend any money. Thanks!

Most of my CDs are in storage but picked up a few used of my fav's last night. Have some apple lossless on my iPhone as well to play through the DAC they have. (sonus?)

As I consider the possiblility of tubes in my life, the comfort zone comes up as a tube Pre. There's a ARC Ref 3 listed now and the data on it seems appealing. Should have a report on the days adventure later.
Thanks.

Well, I spent Monday afternoon listening to the Snells with three different systems in three different rooms and I can report – first and foremost – that they’re truly amazing speakers! Their openness, clarity and range was extremely impressive especially with the added power I’d never heard before. They’re behemoths but do they deliver! Wow.

My objectives for building a system around the Snells has expanded into the issue of introducing more warm, liquid, fluid sound into the live, neutral, clean sound to which I’ve become accustomed with the B&K and a fairly bright room. Thanks Frogman for pushing this. It’s really fun and enlightening.

The first system was the McIntosh C48 pre, MC452 amp and Rotel RCD1520 cd player. The room was the highly dampened room I visited earlier. This was not expected to be good for the Snells since they’re designed to be about 50-50 direct and “reverberant”. It was not. However, while the dynamic quality of the sound was quite muted, the staging was very noticeably deep and wide. The speakers disappeared. There was agreement among the listeners that this reflected a strength of the system. With the “dead” room, I felt it was an unfair venue for judging the “warmer” quality of the Mc but I still found myself wishing for more clarity and “live” feeling. While listening to the Royal Philharmonic Decca recording of Beethoven’s concerto for violin and orchestra in D with David Garrett, there was a very noticeable dulling of the bass. Timpanis I expect. I was concerned this was the speakers.

Second system was the intergrated Mcintosh Mc7000. Used the same Rotel cd player. This was set up in the best room in the store. Much more live and a good size for the Snells. Much better dynamics all around. Now, I’m really listening for the warmth thing. Went through the music I’d brought along and in the end, something was still missing for me. I just couldn’t get the softness everything seemed wrapped up in UNTIL I heard a vinyl (on a Rega?) of Fleetwood Mac’s Rumors. Then that wrapping became a harmony of all the elements in the recording. Everything had a place and was in it. It was wonderful.

Last system was the Classe 2300 with a CP 800 pre with built in DAC and the CDP 102 player. The room was more live than the first but not as balanced as the second. More open to other spaces. I admit that I expected the Classe setup to resolve the warmer issue for me right away. It did not. By this time, I’d gleaned some appeal of the warmer sound of the Mc’s and the Classe set up simply did not elicit the dynamic range that I’d clearly come to expect from the Snells.

Please forgive the lack of better info on the high, mids and lows performance; whether they were forward or backwards, full or clipped, etc. etc. It’s just beyond by current ability to discern and I was trying to take in as much as I could while not wanting to over extend my welcome at the shop. BTW, hats off and a big thanks to Josh, John and Brad at Modia here in Austin. They were really helpful, enthusiastic and welcoming of my search. Especially young Josh…he helped me load, set up and move those refrigerators around!

So, fresh from this experience, I was determined to hear some real tubes. Next day I went to hear a set up of an ARC Ref 5, ARC 150, ARC DAC8, a NAD cd transport with a Sonus airplay – driving a pair of Maggie 3.7’s. I brought the same music along. It was good. Real good. But I consistently felt I was reaching through to get to the experience of the music. Tomorrow or next day I take the Snells to hook them up with the ARC’s. There’s also a Bryston amp there.

BTW, listening to the Beethoven piece on the ARC set up, the timpanis were just fine

The journey and the fun continues…

Power, power, power!

So, the next destination in this journey of discovering my magic Snell AIII setup was to haul them to Audio Systems here in Austin. They’re an authorized Audio Research dealer as well as Bryston. Very nice shop with smaller rooms; committed to bringing good sound to customers with some real nice affordable systems. They seem to do a lot of electrostatic speakers but not exclusively by any means. They were very helpful and friendly.

First up for the Snells was the ARC Ref 5 with the ARC 150 with an ARC DAC 8 and a NAD C545BEE. I started with the cd’s I’ve been testing other setups. Nice, really great staging but the speakers especially the bass, was very clearly "anemic". Clearly not enough power. We didn’t even try the DAC.

So, out with the 150 and in with a Bryston 4bsst2. All else stayed the same. More power and definitely, definitely better. Bass improved but still seemed swallowed, not defined. Overall, something was thin as in too revealing. Listened to both the cd’s and the DAC. Overall characteristics same. Too revealing as almost a thin, shrill (too strong a word) sound.

Then we switched the pre to the ARC LS27. Surprisingly, the “lesser” pre actually provided a better synergy with the Bryston and the Snells. Listened to this combo for quite a time, cd’s and my digital music through the Sonus Connect and the DAC 8. But the more I listened (over an hour) the more the sound - which was initially pleasing and appealing - got…cloying. As I exposed the setup to more and more types of music, the depth and nuance my gut was expecting to hear just wasn’t there. The more I listened the more I got increasingly frustrated. I really expected the power of the Bryston to make the Snells sing according to their legend.

Then, as almost an after thought, the very helpful Audio System salesperson, Rice, suggested we try the Sanders Magtech that was in the shop. I knew they carried Sanders and had come across the company in my research but hadn’t paid that much attention to their products. We hooked up the Magtech and went back to the ARC Ref 5. for the pre. The difference was startling and spectacular! Everything sung like nothing I'd heard before with any other set up! It was satisfying and complete in every way. This was the magic song of Peter Snell.

One enormously revealing bass weakness in the previous set ups was evident with the title cut from Johnny Lang’s “Wander This World”. The opening bass is so big and exotic that it almost sounds like some weird synthesizer sound. With the previous setups, the sound was all over the place. With the Magtech, it was absolutely controlled, defined and placed. That was it. Finally, finally, these beasts were under control.

Rice, the salesperson, went off to check the specs. The Magtech is 900w in 4ohm.

I’d heard and read over the years that the AIII’s needed power. Now it’s clear what that means. In this thread, Johnss said it loud and clear – FOUR JC-1’s. Frogman’s vividly recollection of an AIII magic moment was TWO VTL 300’s. These babies need “tons of power”. Tons of power. Plain and simple.

Just to see what we were listening to, we tried the lesser ARC LS27 and there was a huge, disappointing difference. The power of the Magtech needs a really great front end. The Ref 5, the Magtech and the Snells were truly sweet! The DAC 8 is obviously no slouch either.

So, the search is now more clearly defined. Amp must be very powerful. Don’t think tubes can get me there as my setup (and budget) is currently planned. I’m obviously impressed with the Magtech and it’s definitely a contender (great price and rep). Tubes in the preamp seems very, very appealing. Task now is to find one that really performs at a more approachable price point than the ARC Ref 5 (used Ref 3?) Any and all suggestions appreciated.

Next steps in the journey continue. Thanks all.

Fishboat, not yet but closing in. I''m pretty much settled as you suggest. Thanks!

Getting lots of recommendations for the JC1's. I'll renew efforts to hear a pair. Thanks

Will do. Thanks.

You won't be disappointed.

Mike
Got a great deal on a McIntosh C2300 tube Pre to go with the Sanders Magtech. Now I'm waiting for the house remodel to finish so I can get the The system set up and burning in! Boy am i chopping at the bit!
Thanks!