Budget cable chaos??? Is River Cable the new star?

TO Jafant: Snake River cables are far from budget level. But thanks for the rocommendation

I knew I was going to take it on the chin with this thread.
Zd542: I know you "don't take prisoners" in your comments but I wish you would not come on like gang busters. This is an audio blog, not a national security meeting

However, I THOUGHT my comment very funny and insightful that the "Audio Business is not a roving consortium of Renaissance Faires, etc, etc." This is not an original thought on my part but was inspired by either John Atkinson, or one of the senior editors of Stereophile. The subject was under discussion in the "AS WE SEE IT" section of the publication.

It is in my opinion spot on because I am not travelling to an audioshow in Vegas, Denver, Chicago, or NYC to audition a bunch of speaker cables. This idea that the "Cable Company" has every cable on the shelf for auditioning is just not true. Sometimes, they don't have the lengths required, or the loaner of a particular brand is NOT available.

I don't live in New York City, San Fran, or Chicago where I can avail myself of least the advice of audiosales people, or "loanership" of different brands from numerous audio shops. Honolulu has two high end audio shops, neither of which loan out cables or sell budget cables. So I must depend on the astute audio wisdom of my audiophile brothers to get a "read" on different brands of cables out there which I have little to no access. I can't row to Los Angeles in a kayak and check out their audio stores which are numerous if you include all of L.A. county

The sad truth is that many high end stores think of cabling as an after dinner mint. They are more concerned with selling the other components, and often have a narrow selection of cables they can recommend because they don't want to be bothered. The other problem is many of these goddamn audio mags that many of us subscribe, go out of their way to avoid cable reviews or cable shootouts. Maybe many of the writers CANNOT articulate the differences and don't want to be bothered by this after the sale product.

Case in point, page through the September 2013 TAS, there are lots of expensive cable ads, but rarely reviews. Plus, as much as Robert Hartley of TAS claims otherwise this magazine has become increasingly dedicated to super high end audio. This turn has occurred over the last year or so.

Lastly, To Almarg. thank you for your assessment of River Cable Company via their website. You always provide informative and judicious answers (and advice)in response to the threads offered. I wonder if the inductance/ capacitance ratios of the River Cable Flex 8 could be the reason that responder "Jtcf" "sounded dead" in his system. The company's reluctance to quickly refund his purchase is not a selling point for River Cable

To Jtcf. Thanks for the advice,> I know Goertz cables have been around for ages, and so might be able to find a pair of the cooper to audition or possibly buy from The Cable Company or The Used Cable Compnay

TO Tls49, Yes, sometimes frustrated, but I think we are all victims of a business model that makes it difficult to find the right combinations of components, and especially cables. This is mostly the consequence of the "business model" that evolved with the audio industry. I can offer more conjecture about this model but I said my piece. However, I will poke fun at the structural inconsistencies of this business/hobby.

However, to answer your question. My system has changed in the last five years. The Acoustic Zen Hologram 2 is excellent cable, but difficult to live with because if its girth.

Overall, I would say the Analysis Plus Oval 12 speaker cable was very enjoyable, and seemed to get better with every listening session. But I upgraded speakers from the Silverline Prelude II to the Acoustic Zen Adagios, and quickly realized I needed a better cable. I then bought the AZ H2's whose inner detail and midrange were exceptional. Unfortunately, in my room the cable provided a narrow soundstage that never extended beyond the speakers's outer boarders. So now, and after about 2 years, I continue to use the Audio Art SC-5(entry level stuff) speaker cable. It is good to very good, but I am not sold that its bigger brother, the SC-5E is necessarily better at three times the price. Thanks for your response and advice.

Zd542: here is the basic system less the turntable system

Acoustic Zen Adagios speakers
BelCanto PRe-3 line stage
Red Dragon M-500 digital monoblocks
Rega Apollo CD player
Audio Prism Wedge 116 power conditioner

Cables Audio Art SC-5 speaker cables
Nordost Red Dawn IC from amps to BC
Acoustic Zen Tsumani Plus PC used with BC
Chord Chameleon IC (from CD player to BC)
Shunyata "Venom" PC for Rega Apollo

I never in any of my posts or threads stated that I was crying myself to sleep because the sound of the system was mediocre. However, I would like to squeeze out a bit more sound quality, that is, musicality, naturalness, euphononic whatever. I know there are two major component weaknesses in the system, but nothing major that I can't live with.

So, Zd542....Knock yourself with the above information!!!

Tls49: The Chord Chameleon IC was recommended as compatible with the Apollo, and really made a difference in the sound. You are right the Apollo is somewhat bright up top, and also does not resolve highs that well. Occasionally, highs can sound like white noise. Regarding the CD player, I have really made the rounds looking for something better and more resolving. A few members recommended a few of the Arcam players, and I knew I was after a softer, though not less detailed sound. Unless another Rega Apollo comes around, I am quit looking for a new player.

ToZD542: The two components that are in my opinion weaken my system are the Rega Apollo for the reasons that Tls49 has clearly explained. The other is the Red Dragon amps which though neutral as claimed above, convey average depth and weigh to the sound. The sound is not holographic and lacks convincing taut, bass. It goes without saying that the other weakness is the speaker cable. But let just put that topic aside, it has been sufficiently worked over and mangled.

Regarding the limitations of the digital amps I have described, I would have to make a substantial investment in a basic power amp to get the holography, depth and weight I seek in the sound. Sure, I would like to invest in a PASS LABS X-150 or X-250, or one of the Jeff Rowland amps, but the pricing is prohibitive and I don't want to take the chance of having buyer's remorse.

ZD542, I have spent more time than you can imagine reading reviews, and so have put an enormous amount of time into finding the kind of sound I prefer. It might be unavailable to me at my price range. I know there are members on AG who have invested large sums of money for super high end components, cables, etc.and have achieved the sound they want. I cannot do that.

It might just be time to move on; selling the entire rig seems to be a viable alternative than to going around and round on the audio merry go round.

I am quite aware what the parameters of my search are for the sound I prefer, but also the limitations of my budget.

Adios to all and thanks for the advice, comments, etc.
Jim