Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

I have heard the Bardo, Raven One and Raven AC. The Ravens were on the same system while the Bardo was on a completely different system. Both systems were fairly neutral but still not similar sonically. Raven is warmer than Bardo was my general guess. However I did not like either. I much preferred the likes of Avid Acutus, Volvere Sequel, Rega P9 and Platine Verdier.

The cartridge on the TW was Ortofon Cadenza Bronze while on Brinkmann was Lyra Delos.

I would like to highlight two things:

1. Even though in a TT setup the TT-Tonearm-Cartridge is considered as one system, I am sure there are ways to pin down the sound of at least the TT and the cartridge to a certain extent if one has a decent exposure to the components. For example I have heard the TW in 3 different setups and the Cadenza Bronze on two setups and the Lyra Delos in 3 setups. It is like when you listen to a system you more or less can form an opinion on how the speaker sounds and how good is the CD player.

2. Secondly we seem to use the word "neutral" far too liberally. If a component is able to show the difference between two cables it is immediately termed as neutral. Whereas if we look at how neutral the component itself is, meaning how little it alters the source, most multi-thousand dollar equipments discussed here and on other forums would not even get through the qualifying rounds, but they are still termed neutral with various justifications.

Dev, I think your point about TW not doing great in terms of Timing and Rhythm is quite understandable. I dont think it is to do with speed stability. Even though a TT has stable speed the perception of great timing and rhythm has lot more to do with the design and construction of the TT. What materials are used, what kind of isolation is used etc etc. In those design aspects the UK designers are champions and as you may already know, a simple $500 Rega TT possess an amazing sense of timing and rhythm which eludes many/most $50k TTs made in the USA or Germany. Be it the VPI, TW, Transrotor, Scheu Analog...you name it. There are exceptions though but they are exceptions, not the norm. I know I have stuck my neck out but that is how it is.

By the way which TT do you use now ?

Dgad, as always, I am amused by questions like "does
live music have PRAT ?" !! The fundamental building
block of music is PRAT and dynamics. An instrument doesnt
create music, it only creates sounds. When those sounds are
played in certain "time" intervals, in a certain
"pattern" at a certain "speed" we call
it music. This is what people refer to as PRAT, is it so
complicated to make sense ? And you ask me whether Live
music has PRAT ? Live or Reproduced, music is made out of
PRAT and dynamics. Inaccuracy or inability to preserve any
of these is seriously detrimental to the realization of the
actual art that is embedded in the music one is listening.
You say some people love it, some like it and some
"outgrow" it!! To me, people who outgrow it are
basically people who have very less understanding of the art
of music and are mostly concerned about "sound".
They are typical audiophiles who care about the audiophile
aspects of sound and are in hifi only to experience that,
they are always after soundstage, which itself is an
artificial phenomenon which doesnt have any reference. I
agree that dynamics cannot be fully preserved because of
extreme limitations starting from the microphones, recording
tape and all the subsequent equipments in the recording
chain. But PRAT is a lot easier to preserve and most lo-fi
equipments actually preserve PRAT very well. Why do we start
losing it once we enter hifi is something to think about.

Regarding UK turntables, Linn, Rega, Roksan, Avid, SME,
combined sales of these turntables comprise of more than 85%
of "made in uk" TT sales around the world. All of
them keep the timing and pace very well. How big a
soundstage they create is trivial IMO.

Dgad, I know I stuck my neck out the moment I took names and tried to talk straight without using sugar coated disclaimer in every sentence. Believe me I never intended to abuse anyone or sound condescending. Some times straight talk can drive a point home which typical forum speak cannot. I have some very clear thoughts on the PRAT subject which I wanted to bring out. For that my lingo had to change a bit. I do not own any of the UK turntables I mentioned in my previous post so there is no user bias here, just some clean thoughts. I apologize if I have hurt anyone.

I will write more in a while.

Very well said Syntax. Just like the prat thing which people like to avoid discussing or learning.