Brand new VPI Prime 21 or used Clearaudio Innovation compact


Newbie to vinyl here but want to buy last or near last turntable first. Which would you experts prefer if you were in my shoes: brand new unit or used higher original priced unit?  My first cartridge would be in the 700 to 1000.00 range to test out.  Will upgrade to pricier ones in future. Look fwd to ur responses.

Will be running this through:
Audio Research PH7
Audio Research Ref 5SE
Pass Labs XA200 monoblocks

chenglo1

Showing 4 responses by mulveling

Both of these companies are very different, and both have had various issues/complaints with some of their tonearm designs. VPI seems to finally be going towards gimbal arms (Prime 21 has a gimbal), which I think is good, and seems to be getting good feedback. I kept away from VPI Scoutmaster/Classic as a beginner because I hated the wobble of their undamped (back then) unipivots. Honestly their new gimbals look really nice, and I think they will do better with a wider range of cartridges where the unipivot can struggle (e.g. Koetsu stone bodies).

What is the arm on the Innovation? If it’s that awful magnetic-bearing Clarify, then pass. You must have a concrete slab floor for that arm to work OK. The semi-magnetic Magnify is a lot better, but you’ll still need to be aware of isolation. The linear tracking TT-5 can be (so I hear) be a bear to setup. The Satisfy is perhaps too lowly for a table of this level. You would be better off with a Tracer or Universal. But a Graham Phantom (Musical Surroundings used to bundle these with Innovations) would be fantastic! The Graham is a perfect match to Innovation; the only problem was getting consistent supply & service from Graham.

Get a listen to one or both if at all possible. If you can only hear one, but you love it -- well, get it and don’t worry about the other! Several years ago I heard a Innovation Compact with Magnify and Ortofon Cadenza Red. The Cadenza is a little below this table’s level, but it all impressed me enough that I bought my own Innovation. It sounded wonderful.

One more though to consider -- another area where these companies are polar opposites is the product evolution. I can’t count how many new arms & tables VPI has released (and discontinued) in the last 10 years. It’s hard to call their process an evolution; more akin to throwing everything on the wall to see what sticks - then rinse, repeat. The Clearaudio Innovation line has been the SAME for 10 years now, with minor additions and refinements worked in over time (no Mk # versions, though).

Final thought: if you are a newbie and looking at turntables of THIS excellent level of quality, then I applaud you! You're doing it right. I think I'm a lifelong vinyl junkie because I went for a great table to start with (SOTA Star) and loved it from the 1st groove, rather than trudging though the budget-tiers first. Don't listen to anyone who tells you to try a Pro-Ject first ;) 
The Innovation is a total eye catcher and real conversation starter at my home, for sure. Some girls I’ve had over really dig it and genuinely want to know more unprompted (it's good to avoid being the comic-book guy and bludgeoning them with unsolicited hobby minutiae). Then you can tell them about the "bullet proof" panzerholz wood, the magnetic bearing, etc. There’s a lot more to glaze their eyes over with than "uh, I guess the plinth is MDF wrapped in vinyl" ;)
@chaneglo1
Congrats!! I hope you love it :)

@lostbears
I had the round belt on my Innovation Wood, and flat on my Innovation Master. So I didn’t get to do a direct comparison. The flat belt looks better (especially on a black delrin platter) and seems to grip better so the pulley system seems less "chatty" especially on startup. But I doubt that little bit noise could’ve made its way back through the stylus.

Yes, they pulley has to be replaced as well, and I forget the exact number but as I recall Clearaudio charges quite a hefty amount for the small piece of plastic! It’s enough that you should consider an S-Booster linear power supply, or maybe and isolation feet/platform (e.g. Syposium Segue), to have a better chance at making a meaningful difference for the same money. These tables need both good isolation and a solid rack under them for bet performance.

SIDE RANT: Audiogon’s- at-mentions have literally NEVER worked for me, grrr!!!
@lostbears 
Upscale Audio sells a special 24V version with the correct plug for Clearaudio tables (including Innovation series), though unfortunately at a healthy +$100 upcharge. That's where I got mine. I think I lost my original wall-wart already; that thing was a joke on such an expensive table.