Brand new to vinyl: Help!


I am brand new to vinyl, but quite established in digital (CDs, lossless streaming, etc.).

I made the first foray to vinyl by purchasing an entry level turntable - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit.

I am using an Ayre pre-amp with phono stage and also Ayre amp.

While I am happy I have it up and running, I don’t think it sounds as good as my digital setup (Directstream DAC).

So what can I do to improve, short of buying a much more expensive turntable?

Things in my mind:

1 - Since it accepts DC power, buy a linear power supply

2 - Since my Phone stage on my preamp only accepts XLR three-pin connector, I bought a male RCA to male XLR cable from Amazon, less than $20. Do I need a better interconnect?

3 - Upgrade the cartridge (it comes with Ortfofon Red something)

Thanks!
128x128thyname

Showing 5 responses by effischer

+1 reubent.  FWIW, I'd start with the 2M Blue stylus and complete re-alignment.  Those things often have a bigger effect than cables.  I'm not a big fan of XLR adapters; just another mechanical interface set to introduce noise.  Caig DeOxit should be all you might conceivably need given the age of your gear.

Cartridge compatibility is not a concern; your Ayre will handle pretty much anything.  Just make sure your phono section gain is set to 40 dB and resistance is 50 kOhms for your 2M Red or any other MM cart.

That said, some speakers like some cartridges better than others.  That's something that is largely subjective and has been addressed in many other threads.  Again, I wouldn't worry about it; you;re just trying to get a handle on whether the vinyl thing is good for YOU.

Note that the LP itself can have a dramatic effect.  Some are just plain bad, and some will rock your world.  Most are in the middle somewhere.  Use a decent cleaning process (once more, lots of threads here on that) and pick some music you like.

FWIW, I feel that vinyl is superior to digital in every way.  I have a superior DAC, disc player and vinyl rig and after doing hours of A-B testing, I'm always happier with the vinyl.  It just sounds more natural to my ears.

That's why this is such a fun hobby:  Finding that happy listening!
Music is a very personal thing, so you'll have to decide what floats your boat.  A couple of newer releases that should be readily available everywhere that could help you figure your sound out:

St. Vincent - Masseducation
Tony Bennett & Lady Gaga - Cheek to Cheek

IME, jazz and niche artists seem to release better sounding vinyl records in general and recently in particular. Not sure why that is or if it's even a "rule of thumb," but a lot of the bigger acts just sound kind of flat to me.

Don't tweak your Pro-Ject beyond a new stylus, alignment and cable.  Save your money, find music you like and keep your eyes peeled here and other boards.  You can pick up one really serious rig complete for ~$4K in the second-hand market.

Remember, shopping for audio gear is kind of like re-aligning a cartridge:  Take your time, take breaks when you need to and don't stress about any of it.
A long reply here, so bear with me.

Alignment info is discussed in quite a few posts here and you can search on the Web for even more.  Even minor misalignment can affect playback markedly.  The 2M Red is comparatively forgiving, but better alignment is better sound regardless.  You may also want some magnification to help.  I use an illuminated bench magnifier with a hand-held magnifying glass; there are other and more user-friendly solutions too.  

The simplest solution is a Mobile Fidelity device called a Geo Disc; about $50 from anywhere.  It isn't the most accurate but should be sufficient for what you want to do.  It's a single point protractor with arm pivot point reference and precision molded spindle hole.  It's a fast, easy way to double-check a pre-existing alignment.

More precise protractors are often 2 point or elaborate fixture systems that can be quite costly.  Here's a free one:  https://522bb370f5443d4fe5b9-f62de27af599bb6703e11b472beadbcc.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/uploaded_file/uplo...  and instructions to use it:  http://www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/phono-cartridge-alignment-gauge-how-to-use-and-...

Briefly, 2 point systems mean you are trying to make sure the stylus is geometrically aligned at two points on the platter.  Cartridge alignment is a tedious process, so you have to be patient and take your time no matter what method you use.

For both single point and dual point, you have to start with making sure the vertical tracking force (VTF) is correctly set.  That's 1.8 grams for the 2M series and you'll need a scale to confirm.  If you don't have one, you can get one from Needle Doctor or any number of other places.  The catch is you'll have to make sure the balance point of the scale is near to equal with where the surface of the record would be during playback.  You may need to remove any table mat you may have to accomplish this. The reason behind this is so that the reference condition of adjustment as nearly matches the application condition of playback as possible.

To get an idea where that is, cue the stylus down on a record and look at the height of the contact point relative to the table platter surface edge-on.  The arm wand should also be roughly parallel to the record surface.  Shut the table down, turn the anti-skate to zero, place the scale on the platter, cue the stylus down on it and take another edge-on look.  The arm wand needs to be as nearly parallel as possible to the platter surface when you measure the 1.8 grams on the scale.  There are lots and lots of little nuances folks obsess on here, but you shouldn't.  Your table can't readily be made to address them so fuggedaboudit.

At this stage, you can go ahead and check the alignment.  It will either be right or it won't and you should see it pretty clearly.  Pull out your jeweler's screwdriver and your patience and start working on the cartridge position until you get the stylus alignment right.  I can't emphasize strongly enough:  Do not stress out on this.  If you get tired, have a drink.  If you try again and get tired again, go to bed and tackle it another day.  Relaxed patience is the mind-set you want.

The final stages are checking VTF again and resetting anti-skate to the correct value VTF and anti-skate are covered in your table manual.  Note that anti-skate is another topic of much discussion here - fuggedaboudit too for now.   Last, cue up a listening session to see how it all worked.    If you did it right, you should hear a clear improvement.

The whole alignment thing is why Pro-Ject and others offer tables with pre-installed carts.  Not many folks are willing and/or able to deal with it. For those who are, a whole new world of sonic excellence is often revealed.  It's also where better tables, arms and carts make night-and-day differences.  It's definitely paid off for me, anyway.

Have fun!
You can post photos if you like; just start a virtual system.  Go to your member page and you'll readily find the link.  I have my system up, but without pics yet. My entertainment area still isn't finished after 7 years of on-again, off-again construction. Doesn't hurt the sound but looks pretty bad. Nothing I want to show off.

Regardless, keep your eyes peeled here for vinyl toys, too. I've picked up several accessories at very fair prices over the years.  Also some truly excellent vinyl.

Boy, you don't fool around thyname!  Totally different leagues between the Debut and the Concept as you've already discovered.

IMO, the 2M Bronze is much better than the Concept MM.  Not everyone would agree, but that's as may be.  Do you really want to change it out right now?  That's not an easy answer.  It generally takes some time to get everything to equilibrium and properly broken-in; usually ~50 hours of use.  Only then can you identify the synergies and weaknesses in any given rig.

The Concept MM can always be sold later if you aren't satisfied, as could the 2M Bronze.  Depreciation will apply to both, although the 2M can stay in the box for awhile without losing very much.

My suggestion would be to return the 2M and live with the Concept MM for the rest of the year.  Save your money, think about how your system performs and do some A-B comparisons between your digital sources and your analog source.  Try a few "golden oldies" like Getz & Gilberto or Harry James on Sheffield too.  At that point, you might well find that you'll want to make the move to a LOMC instead.  That move most often represents a whole new world of detail, image and dynamics.

Your call either way.  In the meantime, enjoy a very nice vinyl rig.  Happy listening!