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  3. 147670-20253

Blind Testing is Dead - Long live My Wallet testing.

Hi Everyone,

I was seeing some discussions around cables, and reading other discussions about A'gon members asking for opinions on different alternatives for hooking up a DAC, or TV sound, or whatever, and it made me think of this.


I want to tie a few things together:

  • Most technical measurements consumers read were defined by the 1970s. It is fair to describe them as stagnant.
  • The cost to benefit ratio of a lot of products can vary a great deal.
  • I hear things I can't yet measure in cables and crossover components.
  • I like measurements. 
  • Someday measurements commonly discussed among consumers will improve and better tie our values to technology.

A lot has been made about double blind testing, and a lot of readers rely on taste masters (web sites, magazines and social media) and whether in fact these taste masters can hear anything at all. Reminds me a lot of blind testing of wines, or an article I read recently about how much super rare whiskey is fake.


When deciding on a bit of kit, I could not care less about double blind testing. I care about :

  • What audible value can I perceive?
  • Is the price proportional to that value?
  • Is my money better spent on a vacation or liquor?

We should also note that I'm a bit of an iconoclast. Most consumers also care about:

  • Brand recognition
  • Style
  • Perception of modernity (is it cutting edge no one else has)
  • Perception of construction (how much does it weigh, how is it packaged)
  • Ability to create envy.
  • Price ( if it's too inexpensive, it can't be good! )


What is my message then? My message is that this is all cute, like reading about movies or books or music shows, but in the end, it's my wallet, no one else's. John Atkinson is not buying my speakers for me. I am. My hard work creates value which I use some of (sometimes too much) to buy audio related products. The more you detach yourself from brands, costs and worries about measurements the more frugal, and happier  you will be.


Best,

Erik


erik_squires

Showing 5 responses by mikexxyz

mikexxyz
66 posts
 

Eric: It seems like you’re trying to breathe new life into these old controversies.  I’ll click.  My guess is that the Audiogon forum readers are securely in their respective corners.

Developers still use double blind testing.  IMO DB testing is too difficult for consumers and is suicidal for reviewers. 

I see you contribute to DIYaudio on occasion.  There was a developer over there lamenting the daunting task of displacing a perennial speaker favorite from the DB winners circle.  (I assumed it was a competitor’s product.)

I still read the measurements JA posts on speakers.  A speaker with a frequency response rising from 10K to 20K is something I would avoid - no need to waste time there.   

There are a number of audio products that either left the engineering domain a while back (luxury electronics) or were never in it to begin with (tweaks).   Measurements are irrelevant to these guys and their customers.

I agree that we all decide with our ears and our wallet (although some seek validation on various forums.)  

Mike


mikexxyz
66 posts
 

Eric: I often see references to high end watches as an analog to hifi. I don’t think it applies for the following reasons.

1) High end watches are a pure luxury item and the manufacturers know that. As you mentioned, $12K Rolex makes no claim to have better accuracy than a $35 Casio. They have other features that make them collectable (in house movements, unique complications, unique style) but they are inferior to the Casio in their core function.

2) A lot of high end audio is also pure luxury. They understand that as well but do not overtly market it as a life style product but make the claim that their product is superior in function to their Casio counterparts.

3) High end watch collectors are usually informed buyers. High end audio buyers, not so much.


Mike


mikexxyz
66 posts
 
I agree that there is no difference between those that buy an audio product or a watch merely for brand recognition.  My point is that there are folks that buy a $50K amp and then try to tell you how much better it sounds.
mikexxyz
66 posts
 

I’m not going to defend the ego of the luxury watch buyer. I’m just saying they already know that their fancy watch does not keep better time.

The same cannot be said about the luxury audio buyer who insists his $50K amp (or DAC) sound better than a $10K amp (or DAC).


mikexxyz
66 posts
 
Get your headphones and give it a try.  The test ranges from 6 dB to 0.1 dB.  My old ears can't discern anything below 1.0 dB.

https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=0.5
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