Big speakers, are they really the best way to get great sound?

@phusis 

There seems to be a genital competition here. It has been my experience that most persons, lacking exposure, really have no idea. They like Hollandaise sauce but have never had real homemade Hollandaise. The trick is to leave the butter out overnight. The only horns most people have ever heard were something like Altec Voice of the Theaters which, to be polite, were the aural equivalent of chewing on cardboard. The best horn systems are expensive and very large, difficult to deal with. They are not common so most have ZERO experience. You have also made that leap to digital signal processing which has developed its own peculiar  mythology based on poor conceptualization. Speakers and rooms not being perfect, it is the only path to the highest performance unless you are extremely lucky. I have seen this once in my lifetime, the system of a high school teacher. This was in 1978 or so. The speakers were Pyramid Metronomes with Threshold Electronics thrown haphazardly into the livingroom of a small apartment in Miami Florida. This was the very first time I heard a system image correctly. What a wonderful system. 

@phusis 

Small speakers only sound small because of no low bass and visual considerations.

I have set up, lord knows, maybe 10 LS3 5A systems with two subwoofers crossed at 100 Hz. I always put the speakers up on stands in positions people would normally use for towers. Close your eyes and they sound as big as any Wilson or Magico. 

Our vision and eyes are intimately connected. Our eyes and ears have to agree on our position in space or you get vertigo and sea sick. Our brains are also very suggestible. You tend to hear what you see which is why I always close my eyes when evaluating a system. 

@phusis 

I live with 8 foot tall electrostatics and you would be surprised. With enough power (200 watts/ch) and crossed out at 100 Hx 48 dB/oct the little suckers (LS3 5As) will punch it out louder than anybody needs. As a system for people who really do not want big speakers in the room this is a wonderful solution which is why I have done so many of them. The last one being for my son in law around Harbeth P3 ESR XDs crossing to two 12" subs digitally with a MiniDSP HSD.  

@bubba12 

No need to change that approach if you pick the right line. Check out the Franco Serblin Ketema. One of the best dynamic speakers I have ever heard and relative to other top of the line speakers dirt cheap. They are also really good looking. 

@phusis 

Sorry guy, but you are wrong here. Run full range you are correct but not high passed at 100 Hz, 48 dB/oct. The little woofers become a super midrange driver. I have set up many of these systems and they handle peaks absolutely fine up to a reasonably loud volume according to my ear which is used to listening to a very large 8500 watt system. 200 Watts will get you 106 dB with an 83 dB efficient speaker, more than enough to handle peaks from a comfortably loud 95 dB. No, they will not handle peaks with the grace of a large system at high volume like yours or mine, but they are an easy match for most dynamic tower systems and with the right subwoofers will have even better bass. More importantly, in a well treated room they will image better than most speakers which was always the attraction, for me at least. I remember the first time I listened to them at the store back in 1978. They were casting a better image than most of the larger speakers in the store, as long as you could manage without any bass. The real magic did not come along until we had digital crossovers with high order slopes for subwoofers. 

@ phusis

All quite correct. However, nobody in their right mind would run them that way. It would damage your ears. The real immediate limiting factor is the woofer. Run full range the woofer will start doubling when pushed too hard which is very annoying. High passing solves this issue completely. Next is the tweeter and I really do not know how much it can take. All I can say is I have never seen one blow. 

Watched the movie Oppenheimer last night. Highly recommended. 

@daveyf 

None of the megabuck systems I have heard were anywhere near worth the money. The size of speakers can be misleading. From LS3 5As to monster Wilson's or Magicos it all comes down to one tweeter. It is mostly the visual overload of these large speakers that impresses. My opinion is jaded by the fact that I will only listen to Dipole, Line Source ESLs and the very best of them cost $45,000.00. My subwoofers technically cost more. The system in total costs about $100,000 and that is chump change compared to other systems and IMHO are far more convincing. On the downside, they (the ESLs) are rather plain looking. The new subs will spruce things up a bit.

The best dynamic loudspeakers I have heard in a long time are the Franco Serblin Ketemas and they are a relatively inexpensive at $40,000. Only the lowest octave is missing. They are also handsome, beautifully made devices. 

@bubba12 

I think that depends on the line. Many manufacturers save their best work for their top offering. Franco Serblin has passed on. For those who do not know who he was, he was Sonus Faber's chief designer. His Ketema is his assault on SOTA and he could only get the price up to $40K. Where exactly does that leave companies like Wilson and Magico? Their top of the line speakers are stupid expensive and IMHO definitely not worth it.

@phusis 

Darn, I like your philosophy. I also like your system. Please explain what you mean by, "actively configured"?  The only thing I do not like is running the 15" woofer up to 600 Hz. I assume this is because of the horn's low frequency cut off. I would use a very high order cross. Minimizing room interaction by limiting dispersion is a very important concept. Omni Directionality is a problematic attribute as it maximizes room interaction. You "hear" the room which destroys the impression that you are in a large space. It is also much harder to achieve controlled directionality and not overdo it and limit reasonable listening positions. Horns are really good at limiting dispersion without overdoing it.

You have a full frequency, limited dispersion point source system. I have a full frequency, limited dispersion line source system. I also configure everything "actively", by which I mean all crossovers and processing are done digitally and each driver or transformer has its own amplifier. I would love to be able to compare the two systems.