Vetnik: My bad I see you were directing you intensity at Earflapp. |
This from the Tweek Geek site. I started thinking about the fact that the HiFace has 2 precision clocks on board (2.5ppm) and the slight delay in the interface of iTunes when using the HiFace led me to believe it is in fact Async. This is what I found:
28) Does the hiFace work in asynchronous mode?
Sure, the transfer of data over the USB bus happens in a totally asynchronous fashion, with respect to their retransmission to the DAC, in short packets which use all the available bus bandwidth. Actually, hiFace is master in the transmission from PC to interface. As it uses its low jitter oscillators to time the S/PDIF transmission, line jitter is totally uncorrelated to data transmission from PC to interface. |
I did buy the HiFace with the BNC connector. I use bnc/rca adapters. I will await your modified hiface review before opting for this option. As a user of the batter powered Power Dac I can attest to little if any difference when operated on battery vs AC power. Not saying there won't be a difference but as one who has designed power supplies, the differences in my opinion can be nill. If good quiet regulators are used the battery option should make very little difference. If they are noisy, it may add a noticeable benefit to the sound. |
Ok, just got and installed the latest HiFace driver for OSX 10.5.X and I am happy to report that it is 100% bit perfect (pops and ticks are gone!!!) and sounds FANTASTIC!!! It has edged out the built in Tos output (using real-glass Tos).
I am very very pleased and I think I will be purchasing a few more of these units. This is the device we have been waiting on... 24/192khz capable (FAR FAR better than any USB dac I have heard) and for $180.00 (BNC). |
Final word on the MSB, this has been the MOST difficult digital product I have ever judged.., whew!!!
OK, on the right vibration control equipment (you must experiment) under and on top AND with the right interface feeding it...I now love it. I am using the HiFace with the unit with the latest drivers and it is so good I pulled the ad of off Agon (yeas I was going to sell it, but no-longer).
I highly recommend it, but it takes a bit of care to ring the best out of it. In my opinion this is not a plug and play dac. One must 'tune' it so to speak. When it is burned in and paired with the right source it is an awesome sounding device. I am keeping it :)
Oh, I am still purchasing the Playback Designs MPD-5. I don't think I am opting for the SACD version as I don't own any (sold them a while ago) and I don't really spin physical media. |
Thanks guys, the fact that anyone is interested in my findings makes it all worth while. I have never heard the Berkley so I cant comment on its sound. I would also like to know more about the Berkey converter, sounds very interesting.
I have had people tell me who have heard the Weiss and Berkley dac in the same sys that if I was not fond of the Weiss I would not like the Berkley.., but again without actually hearing it for myself... I have no opinion :)
I will keep everyone posted on my findings. |
Hey Vance, stand by on the Bidat full on comparison. It took me so long to get the MSB singing I want to do justice to that head to head comparison. |
Ok, so my Bidat showed up today the very latest mod from John Wright. With only about 30 minutes on the clock I will say that I find it a bit more musical than the MSB. It was wierd it was like it clicked when the components inside started heating up. I have compared redbook (Jane Monheit) so far and the Bidat renders her more beautifully. On 24/96 material downsampled by itunes, they are very close but when I allow the MSB to play the same material at 96khz one can readily hear the increase in spatial information.
I will let it cook for the next few days and report back this wknd but so far I am very glad I had the mod done... Man the Bidat is an incredible machine... |
The one that's for sale was also mine, I had 2 of them :) |
John Wright just told me he didn't want to hear my opinion on the Bidat until 3 weeks have elapsed LOL!!! |
Ok, so I will try to make this concise and clear:
With about 25 hours on the Bidat I did some preliminary testing last evening. Note that John Wright has informed me that the Bidat mods need 3 weeks to fully settle in so this is a sort of "take it for what it is" review.
I just found out that HDTracks is now carrying the Verve Catalog and they have Diana Krall "Quiet Nights" on 24/96khz FLAC ready for download. I already owned the Redbook version so I thought, great I will download it and compare the various versions.
I converted the flac files to AIFF using Max (I run a mac mini using the HiFace converter and a FIM Gold digital S.E. cable to the various dacs).
I first compared the Bidat and MSB Power Dac using the 24/96 material down-sample in iTunes to 44.1khz. That is a no-no iTunes did not do a very good job and I did not like the sound on either machine. I then compared the 24/96khz material down-sampled to 44.1 using PureMusic (MUCH MUCH better than iTunes doing the down-sampling :) the sound was very close, but I noted that the Bidat did not seem to sound as good with the down-sampled material as the MSB...it had a sort of constrained uptight character to the overall flavor of the music.
Next up I compared the 24/96 version played (obviously) on the MSB to the Redbook on the Bidat. This is a comparison that I don't think yielded much real world information. The material is mastered too differently, the Redbook is compress (like most RB material) whereas the 24/96 material is very relaxed and flowing. Despite this I walked away thinking the MSB 24/96 was most enjoyable, but the Bidat RB was more energetic. That last statement may seem to contradict my comments concerning compression, but it really does not, I did note both characteristics.
Now this is the test I believe was most telling. RB on the Bidat vs the MSB. Bidat wins!!!
Ok, kidding it is not that simple. The Bidat does in fact sound far more musical than the MSB all things being equal, but when one allows PureMusic to handle the number crunching duties instead of iTunes, the MSB becomes so close to the Bidat (kissn cousins) I can not readily make a decision as to which is better (remember the Bidat only has 25 hours on it). I would go so far as to say that ANYONE who owns the MSB owes to themselves to purchase the PuerMusic software (and before anyone asks, no I do not have any type of relationship with the folks a ChannlD other than they got my $129.00 for the PureMusic s.w. :)
PM on the MSB is really beautiful, but with the Bidat.., NOT so much. The Bidat did not take to the PM very well at all in fact I flat did not care for the sound. The Bidat has a character which is simply breathtaking and the PM did not mix well with its' natural character.
This is perfect as the Bidat is on 44.1/48khz so I don't need the sample rate switching abilities of PM when I listen to the Bidat. Thus the PM software will be used exclusively with the MSB in my system.
Killer digital = Bidat + Mac Mini + M2Tech HiFace + REALLY REALLY GOOD Coax digital cable
or
MSB + Mac Mini + PureMusic Software + M2Tech HiFace + REALLY REALLY GOOD Coax digital cable (Note I have found that the best filter to use with the MSB is the default filter).
Ok, there you have it. I will follow this up when the Bidat fully breaks in. |
I wanted to also back away from something I stated earlier concerning iTunes down-sampling. It is not nearly as bad as I mentioned when the Bidat first arrived. I can only hypothesize that the pre-broken in Bidat and the down-sampled files didn't have simpatico :) Now that the Bidat is broken in my down-sampled files sound stunning with the Bidat via iTunes... so many variables :) |
Tomorrow marks the 2 week run-in of my modded Bidat. It has changed dramatically in those 2 weeks. I think by now you folks know that I like my Power Dac, but the Bidat is beginning to pull ahead and open the gap a bit.
I was asked by a fellow audiophile what I thought the differences were between the two and I put it as such:
The Bidat (if both are compared to women) would be more of a ravishing beauty with not quite as much depth, while the MSB would be likened to a very attractive woman with perhaps a more cerebral tilt. Leaving that analogy for a moment, if you stood at an abyss and the music were emanating from somewhere in the abyss, the MSB would portray that music as coming from a much deeper point than the Bidat....That was until about 2 days ago.
The Bidat now has that seemingly bottomless pit depth of sound origination plus it remains the ravishing beauty of the bunch. At this point I would say it is the best D/A I have ever experienced (not just owned.., experienced).
Now the MSB is no slouch and for $4300 ($5k with volume control) it is simply one of the best most musical dacs available and really does break the cookie cutter sterile sound of so many highly praised dacs which fail to deliver anything resembling music.
Stay tuned I shall continue to comment as things unfold. |
One other thing concerning the MSB, you have probably read people describe its character (sound) as laid-back. It is... it is a very languid sounding unit, and if you decide to team it with a preamplifier, I suggest you do NOT use a laid back euphonic warm and fuzzy pre. Something a bit on the concise and fast side of the track would probably work better. I could imagine the Sonic Frontiers 'Line' series would be a good match as well as others. |
I have a power dac which is according to MSB is a Platinum without the modularity. The power dac has the 16x filter not the 32x filter and it has the second gen dac modules not the signature. I have been told by unnamed persons at MSB that it is very very close in sound to the Platinum Signature dac but the signature has more detail. More was said but I don't want to put it on this forum, hope you guys understand.
The testing was on redbook but honestly as the bidat has broken in, 24 bit material down sampled sounds very good, but head to head on Diana Krall Quiet Nights 24/96khz : the MSB playing at full resolution vs the bidat playing the file being down sampled by iTunes ... The MSB is noticeably better and not by a little. |
Lev: Thanks man... I am having fun and I am very glad some people are enjoying my quest/endeavor. Like I said when I started this thread it was about comparing dacs head to head and reporting what "I" heard ... unbiased.
As I have found many dacs don't stand up to muster, but for a currently available dac I do think the MSB gear (when massaged correctly :) is in the top echelon. I still have to get the Playback Designs MPD-5 which I am really looking forward to. I'll report more as I hear things worth a blurb or two. |
Tpaxadon: Well this is my 3rd Bidat :) My original Bidat was purchased around 1997 when I heard from a reputable source that a number of the bigger reviewers of the day were using Bidats on the hush hush for their personal syste, (regardless of what they were writing of the +$30K dac crowd). It was a SuperBidat. Now in November 1998 I sold it when I bought the Sony SCD-1...selling my Bidat is what I consider the biggest mistake since getting into this hobby :)
I had another Bidat (owned 2 at the same time) which was a plus but done earlier by the fellow who owned it before me so I don't know when it was modded, I do know it was at least 2 years ago because I bought it from a friend who had it for that time and it was modded when he acquired it. I sold that unit, as my current model was being finished up by John. This unit will have 3 weeks on it come this Wednesday :)
I will purchase and try one of the Belkin digital cables. I use a Monarchy Audio Glass Tos which is absolutley fantastic and as I have stated elsewhere in this thread the only digital cable I have tried which can match the FIM Gold Coax digital cable. I have to use Tos with the Bidat for now, because the Bidat takes up residence in my bedroom system connected to a Mac Mini. Whilst I do use and love the HiFace by M2Tech (I use in "Hog Mode") with the MSB, I can't use it with the Bidat because the Bidat currently does double duty when watching movies. The HiFace uses a big memory buffer which cause lip Sync issues (with video) thus I use the Tos.
"Hog Mode" is a feature of Pure Music which allows me to permanently anchor one output to iTunes. Thus when I play songs from iTunes whichever dac is plugged into the Hiface will play while the Audio Midi setting are set to "System Output" and everything else will be played out the built in output of the mac mini. This works well and I think it was ingenious of the ChannlD folks to come up with this.
The Bidat is still one of the Finest 16 bit playback machines extant and a permanent resident in my system... Heck im still thinking of picking up a second one... again LOL!!! |
FYI, I want to be clear that the Bidat DOES work incredibly well with the HiFace unit when listening to music maybe even sounds a tad better on some material (perhaps due to the memory mode buffer) than the built in Tos (tlaking Tos with a superb glass cable). But is you use the Bidat for audio when watching movies or actually ANY dac the Hiface will cause lip-sync error i.e. the speech will lag the video by about .25 seconds or so (timing is a rough guess I did not measure it :) |
Ok, so I can say that now the Bidat is one of the finest 16 bit dacs I have ever heard or owned!!! Having said that, MSB's latest gear is better when playing 24 bit material (as would be expected) but only when one has gone to significant lengths to configure the source optimally. In this case that involves a mac mini, channl D's Pure Music software (which must be setup just right) and other little things.
The Bidat still sounds more ravishing than the MSB, but the MSB simply gives you more information and resolution. Even on 16 bit material the MSB tells you more about the event while being very musical and is the antithesis of the majority of digital I hear out there today. The Bidat is just simply beautiful to listen to; I would say that the Bidat can be plugged into nearly any amp directly and simply allow you to melt into the music, whereas the MSB will need coaxing and perhaps the "right" preamp to ring the best out of it.
Either way they are both fabulous for what they do...the Bidat for rendering the BEST 16 bit music I have ever heard, and the MSB for being nearly as beautiful sounding but with more information being passed along in the process. I see the MSB being my preference when I am listening to complex orchestral pieces or jazz ensembles. Not that the Bidat does not excel at this too, it does but the added information of the MSB lends itself to these formats.
This is the most difficult comparison of 2 products I have ever been involved with...(and you may have noted that at times my statements appear contradictory which attests to the difficulty these two pieces have presented me with) I am keeping both and maybe moving up the MSB line (I have the Power DAC, which is a non modular Platinum DAC 3). I also want to try the Playback Designs MPD-5.
John, the Bidat is a wonder and one of the finest dacs (with your' mods) extant.., well in my listening experiences anyway :) |
Also, I have found out that M2Tech will be releasing a higher end product sometime in the future (I don't have a time-line as yet) which will also have a AES/EBU connection. I am completely sold on the HiFace which IS Asynchronous. Guys before you drop major coinage on some of these other USB to SPDIF converter, try the BNC $180.00 24/192khz capable HiFace, I think you may find it as great as I did. |
Wanted to clear something up, in speaking with John Wright at Museatex he made me aware that I had been incorrectly refering to his "Factory Upgrades" as mods. He does not do modifications to the Bidat they are factory updates, which makes sense as Museatex is the company which produced the units :)
If you have a Bidat, then you already know it is better that the vast majority of what is being offered, even dacs with very high price tags... but you owe it to yourself to have the latest factory upgrades performed on the unit. |
Hi guys, I know it has been along long time since I posted on this thread. Some things have changed. I still have the MSB power Dac and i sold the Bidat. I reluctantly sold my Bidat but... the MSB with the new m2Tech EVO was sooooo good I found myself listening to the MSB 90% of the time.
I have since sold the EVO which was noticeably better than the HiFace :)
Actually so much better, I could no longer listen the HiFace, thus I sold it.
I have now sold the EVO and I have just paid for (waiting on delivery) the new 24/192 Diverter.., can't wait!!!!!!
Do I miss my Bidat? Yes and No... I miss some of the vinyl like things it did, but in the end as the MSB continued to break in, the musicality with the resolution was just too much to ignore. I still use PM as the audio engine along with iTunes as the jukebox, BUT!!! I bought a Music First Audio Ref passive Pre and let me tell you.... That combination is killer!!!
Smooth and resolute with some ineffable quality which is akin to the beauty of the Bidat without any coloration.., just a marvelous piece of gear.
I had a PS Audio Dac about a month ago with the bridge installed. I did a head to head comparison with the MSB on RB and hiRes. I used glass tos and the Bridge.
The PWD is very nice and especially when you look at what you can pick them up for, it can be the center of a very nice system.
Now to the Guts of it.... The built in volume control of the PWD simply does NOT cut the mustard! It is ok if you're in a pinch but it would NEVER be my choice for long term. The volume control in PM (I have found that no dither is FAR FAR better than using dither) is so far beyond the PWD's volume control words will not do justice :)
How didit compare to the MSB? In a word... It got SMOKED!!!!!!
It simply is not in the league of a Bidat/AMR77/AMR777 or obviously a MSB.
Now having said that, it was listenable and with the right ancillaries.., probably very livable (that is if you couldn't hear the other units).
I will say this, it was no where near as awful to MY ears as the Weiss Minerva was. If you recall from way back when I started this thread I flat out HATE the sound of that Dac.
The PWD is certainly NOT bad, it just isn't on the same level as the other dacs I mentioned.
Until next time.....
Perhaps I'll have a playback design Dac in the near future :) |
Though this may be off topic a little I figured you guys might like to hear about my diverter. I have just purchased the 24/192 Sonicweld Diverter. It is supposed to ship in the next couple of weeks.
The plan is to do a head to head with the EVO into my MSB Power Dac. I will keep you posted. I've owned the HiFace which was bettered by the EVO and now I will find out if the Diverter is as good as I have read.
One Dac that I would love to try is the Empirical Audio Overdrive.., I am thinking of arranging an in home demo of the Dac. If I do I Willie course report my finding right here :) |
Hey man good to hear from you and see that found my update to this old thread :)
Your points are well taken.., but... I used the VERY good glass Tos on the MSB and the CAT 6 cable from my airport extreme into the bridge of the PWD. I never tried the Tos into the PWD.
Mileage may vary.., but those were my findings :) |
Yes, i (wrongly :) assumed people would realize when i mentioned the bridge that I used cat 5 or 6 cabling. Also I do remember that I briefly used the Tos on the PWD..., was not impressed, the bridge was slightly better :)
Now I did have the transport at my diposal for a short time and I used it with a silnote coax and a synergistic research balnced as well as the top of the line ps audio HDMI cable. It was.., ok. I think the HDMI was a bit more detailed but the XLR was a little fuller.
I did not mention this as I did that testing in my uncles system and NOT directly against the MSB :)
Again, not knocking anything, just saying that for my ears, i heard nothing that would caus me to desire this unit. I did install the eLyric software.., so I certainly tried to give it a fair shake.
The transport is really really nice and I personally ( don't laugh) like it more than the $16k MBL 1611 that it replaced in my uncles system :) |
Thanks Lev:). I appreciate all you guys for appreciating the spirit of fun with which I started on this journey. As I stated before, this is just one mans opinion on a bunch of gear :) they're toys and it's fun to play with all this stuff! |
I receive the Diverter HR today. I am using it with my Mac mini, pure music 1.8a ( soon to be 1.82 soon as i download it:) my Graaf Modena and MFA Ref passive attenuator. The Dac is the MSB Power Dac. I am using a Grover huffman RCA spdif cable and a standard USB cable. The sound out of the box was quite good, if a bit thin. The thinness almost immediately went the way of the dinosaurs (about 20minutes of play/power-up time) and it is now sounding very full and full of information retrieval. I find that it is better than my "real" glass Toslink from the Mac mini to the MSB. The glass Tos is very very very good and rivaled my former very expensive FIM RCA spdif cable which I still think may be the finest spdif cable i have ever heard.
The Locus Design Cynosure cable will be in my possession sometime next week and will replace the generic USB cable now employed.
The unit is beautiful and has a dot matrix display which indicates the sampling rate.
I have it burning in for the next 5 hours and will do a little more listening tonight. I was told by Josh at Sonicweld that it will need to run in at least a week to really open up.
I sold my EVO some time ago and may get another in order to do a head to head comparison. At this point a comparison would be from memory only but I would say it appears to be (at this point) at the very least every bit as resolute as my former EVO. That is big for two reasons. My EVO was more run-in and I was using my former FIM gold spdif from the EVO to my MSB.
This may not seem like very much info but please standby; as the unit breaks in I will report my findings but it certainly appears tobethe real deal! I feel I made a very good decision.... Oh and HRx recordings?!? Sound spooky good! |
Tos with a real glass cable sounds awesome in my system. Most people commenting about the sound of Tos are possibly basing that on one of two thing; regurgitating what they have read or heard from others or they have listend with a plastic fiber Tos cable. I have directly compared my "real glass fiber" Tos to my former $1.7k FIM Gold digital out of the John Wright nodded Bidat and my MSB Power Dac. While I agree that as far as bandwidth goes (6.xMHZ for Tos if memory serves) Tos is the lowest on the totem pole, in my system it was fully 97% of the coax connection.
I did compare the glass fiber to the plastic fiber and the plastic is horrendous and completely unlistenable, but the glass will shock you.
Now having said all that :) I use the Diverter HR now so the point is moot, but blanket statements seldom cover all the permutations thus my pontification on the Tos connection. |
Carl23, I totally understand your point! I've said it before; if it were not for me wanting access to hires files I would probably have kept my Bidat forever :) |
Ok, so the Sonicweld is pulling away nicely from the Tos using glass cabe (I keep mentioning the glass part because it really does make Tos quite formidable as a choice).
In direct comparisons the Tos is very languid and smooth, rich sounding if you will. It is only in direct comparison to the Diverter HR that one begins to see the fine cracks to use an analogy. The glass sounds very good, but it is lacking something very fine.., a sense of overall gentlenss is not there. The Diverter offers that last bit of an organic quality to the sound. The glass never sounds digital, it is very very analog, but perhaps like a $10k analog rig compared to a $30k rig.
Both are great (speaking of the hypothetical analog rigs) and should be for the money but typically that extra money will buy you something and it usually comes across in increased refinement and musicality. The way the diverter finishes notes is really quite something!
I would suggest that the diverter deserves a well sorted out and highly resolving system. If you value everything you can get out of your Dac buy the diverter HR it is really worth every penny! |
