Thank you for taking the time to answer my question! I tried to edit my question beca Are there were a couple bad auto corrects but it said I can’t.
Anyway, I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-03TXH. Very interesting point about the transformer!
So it sounds like even if I had a 2 channel amp powering my fronts that it would be better than bi amping using my receiver. It’s just really hard to find a 4 or 6 channel amp for some reason.
I was just using Parasound as an example. I am very new and growing into the audiophile world. Lol I upgraded from MA Silvers to Gold, and I just feel like I could probably be getting more treble out of these ribbon speakers. I’m not sure what is the best for that. I have 2 MA powered subwoofers and holy smokes, there is no worry there!!! |
Thanks Tom that makes sense to me. Did you post something and then take it down? I read a post and then it disappeared. |
I would say that we mostly listen to HT movies using surround, and occasionally I will listen to 2 channel music.
When i listen to music 2 channel I want the best sound Possible.
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Tom, that’s half of the question answered for me right there! For instance, if I buy a two channel McIntosh that’s bi-wired, will it sound better than bi amping using my receiver channels as I have it now? I’m using channels 6 and 7 to bi amp my fronts. I don’t know whether to buy a McIntosh 2 channel and bi wire, or buy like an Anthem 8 channel and start by amping the fronts and center channel later down the road when I get a center channel. |
That’s the recommendation I needed Soix, perfect! Thanks!
Thanks Stringreen for allowing me to let go that I always have to bi amp. |
Maybe it goes back to the whole transformer thing? If you go packing multiple channels into one housing aren’t you in essence building towards what an A/V receiver is? Does anybody know if a multiple channel amp still only has one transformer like a receiver? Sorry, I am new at this but so far this is really fun. Lol |
Thank you, I’ll look into it. Now, if I can’t afford an integrated amp right now, what are thoughts on buying an amp first to run from my Elite receiver, and then buying a pre amp with HT passthrough in the future to stick between them? I’m guessing it’s probably better to wait and save $1800, and go for the integrated huh? |
Thanks guys, and that’s good to know that NAD and Rotel are considered better than Emotiva. I am really trying to find an integrated amp with ht bypass because I’m not exactly sure how to use work around to just use the receiver volume control it all and not have to get up and manually adjust multiple volume settings every time I want to adjust the volume while watching a movie. So far I like the looks of Hegel, Parasound, and Roksan. It’s just a matter of which sounds best with Monitor audio Golds. Is it weird to say that, although the dispersion is better now with the ribbon tweeters, I feel like my silvers sounded better with my current receiver? Maybe the receiver is just not enough for the upgrade to the Golds?
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Also, can anybody show me pictures of the difference between the transformer of a pioneer elite receiver, and one in a nice amp or integrated amp?
Is there really much difference between a separate pre-amp, and using a receiver as a preamp?
I know the the general theory, but just wondering if people exaggerate the differences caused by the transformer in the AV receiver and then the signal processing of the AV as a pre-amp.
I totally believe that the power from an AV is overrated.
Here is is why I am asking - I found a 7 channel Anthem PVA7 Power Amp which may be a nice solution for now if an integrated amp will not make much difference from my receiver using it as a Pre-amp. |
I think my mind is made up...I’m saving for the Hegel 160. |
But just for my learning experience, what do you think about these pre/amp processor av receivers? Are they just an AV receiver in disguise or are they equivalent to a real pre-amp? |
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Soix and CTsooner, you guys are cracking me up. I like your bluntness. |
If I get an integrated amp without HT bypass, isn’t there a way to still control the volume all from the AV receiver?
Somebody said something about using another line in or line out but I didn’t understand. |
I guess what I am asking is whether or not there is a 5 channel preamp that is as good as the pre amp in an integrated amp. That way, I could ditch the receiver and use a 5 channel pre amp and 5 channel amp for HT and Stereo that’s all around awesome. |
sfcfran, I agree that this is a great thread. Although I’m sure elsewhere on a audiogon there are individual threads which focus on each element of it, you guys have taken a newbie like me through the entire thought process of the life cycle of home audio setup. Lol
Thank you all for taking the time in your replies.
I guess my only question now is how do I set up a system in my 5.1 channel living room after making my elite receiver the basement kids movie system?
Will an integrated amp serve as everything for a 5.1 system that I can use for movies and then turn into 2 channels when I listen to music, or is it then time to buy a 5.1 pre-amp/processor still to an integrated amp?
Based on what I have read a multiple channel pre/processor for HT use is still not as good as an integrated amp. Have I learned something here? Lol |
Gotcha. All good advice. A couple amps being used by Monitor owners are Simaudio Moon, Roksan, and I believe maybe I saw a Belles. Moon and Roksan are very expensive and hard to find used.
You guys may want to kill me, but my goal is mainly to have an all around system I can be happy with for now. In other words, I may ditch the receiver and buy an AV processor with a separate multichannel amp. Down the the road I will buy a Rogue Cronus Magnum II tube amp (integrated) just for music since it’s what the hifi house paired with the speakers I bought from them in the showroom. |
Ok, so I have decided. I am buying the Atoll IN100 SE integrated amp with bypass brand new directly from France! |
Yep! I’m using Monitor Audio Gold 100s. My Silvers have a nice neutral sound to them and now it feels like my receiver is underpowered for the Golds and the sound is not as neutral and smooth and certain highs and lows are popping out of nowhere while watching a movie which I’m guessing is bad movie sound editing. I feel like I’m missing some mid bass too and I have the speakers plugs out.
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Sorry guys, I’m still confused about one more thing. Until now, I thought HT Bypass was a button. I see now from looking at the Atoll that the HT bypass is actually RCA inputs on the integrated amp. I see it has the effect of bypassing the integrated amp volume and use the volume of a receiver.
My burning question is whether or not that means the integrated amps pre-amp processing will be controlling my front L/R speakers 100% of the time and the receiver is only sending signal and volume? Or, is the receiver sending signal, volume, and pre-amp processing (i.e. crappy settings like wide surround) directly to the amp portion of the integrated and bypassing the integrated amps nice processing? |
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Guys, I assure you I am not a troll. I literally wrote a week ago and have only had time to go to one place and they hardly had anything as they concentrated on Marantz and McIntosh. I have two kids and a dog in training, work 10 hour days in a different state an hour drive each way. I am willing to audition but I just need more time. I literally knew nothing a week ago and you guys are teaching me a lot and I appreciate it.
I was getting overwhelmed with all of the recommendations and thought I owed an answer.
I don’t have a huge budget right now, and the Atoll integrated is only $1000 brand new. Anything is going to be better than what I have. I may chase my tail over time but I’m ok with that.
I saw some people happy and using Atoll and the description of detailed smooth is exactly what I am looking for. One thing I don’t understand is the DAC. The IN100SE must have a DAC in it right? It doesn’t mention one but it wouldn’t play without it right?
Caphill thank you you so much for the processor information! |
Also, If I have a receiver to an integrated, can I connect my powered sub to both of them since my sub has 2 rca input lines?
This way I’m assuming I can have a sub playing with the integrated amp for just music. I don’t know if this will work though because an integrated doesn’t have crossover programming right? |
Right, I thought of this but I don’t want the fronts to be full range.
For some reason, the Monitor Audio Gold 100s don’t seem to be performing as well as my silver in the mid range coming from the bookshelf woofer. Not sure if it’s because monitor got rid of that silver cone in the middle or not.
Anyway, I think I have my way forward. I’ll start with a 5 channel Atoll Amp from my receiver. Then, in the future I can either buy a preamp with bass management and ht passthrough to connect between the receiver and amp, or buy an AV processor and call it a day. I’m sure either will be good enough for me, better than just using my receiver. |
Ok everybody...update! Thank you all for helping me. So I’m just starting out and I’m sure I will grow, but I had to go for the best deals at this time.
For my new man cave I just bought:
1. Marantz 7704 processor
2. Anthem PVA 7 Amplifier
For my living room I currently have a pioneer elite receiver and plan to buy the following, and put my MA RXW-12 subwoofer between them to use for bass management on my Monitor Audio Gold 100s for listening to music:
1. Atoll Pre-amp (HT Bypass)
2. Atoll AV500 (5 channel) so I can Bi amp
Thanks again for your help! |
Preamp so I can use my sub for bass management and attach the amp to the subwoofer. Otherwise I would have the full signal going to bookshelves which I do t want.
The monitor audio manual must recommend three separate times to biamp so I thought here must be a reason behind their design.
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I have really nice speaker cable from Canada called Phantom cable. It’s 12ga. I can explain what I learned about using the subwoofer (for bass management) between the pre amp and amp instead of an integrated amp if you would like. The Atoll 5 channel amp has two toroidal power supplies and all independent transformers in it, so It is essentially similar to having two two channel amps. The good thing for me is that it will be flexible if I ever expand my upstairs system into a 5.1 (right now it’s a 2.1) and until then I can bi amp which as you said is probably more mental than actually making a difference in sound. I do see your point that maybe I should just get a really nice 2 channel amp for now. I could still get the Atoll 100SE which is a nice 2 channel, but the 5 channel is scaled properly with added components and not much more money. I’m not sure f I would rather have anything over it at this point. I know you can’t tell over a generic recording, but you can kind of get the idea of the detail in this one. https://youtu.be/n6aFGttjhdM |
CTSooner, You are probably going to cringe when I tell you that I didn’t audition the Anthem amp, but it was too good of a deal to pass up. The Marantz sounded nice to me, but they all sound nice in the store. Again, I found too good of a deal on a new 7704 to pass up either way.
I only purchased HT for my downstairs theater system so far. I have been leaning towards Atoll for my music setup, but I am going to hold off on any purchase until I have a chance to really audition at Overture in Wilmington Delaware. I may stick with 5 channel in case I want to run a movie upstairs, or I may just buy a 2 channel and use upstairs strictly for music.
For now, I ordered 4 custom ICs you can see on my other thread. I ordered Buelund impregnated oil with Cardas RCA connectors.
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