Better desktop DAC

Hi @Hilde45

Discussing DSD versus PCM is interestering, but off topic here. I just want the DAC to do the job for DSD as well as PCM. I am not so interested in DSD versus PCM filters etc. I have fifteen years experience with DSD recordings. I know the faults and benefits.

Forget DSD?

The above discussion maybe illustrates a broader point.

To get a good-sounding desktop DAC for a reasonable price, I should drop the DSD requirement. This is still a somewhat new and niche thing. 

If I keep to DACs with acceptable 192-24 PCM resolution, the range will be much larger, and the chance to get a very good-sounding DAC will be higher.

Yet - it wont do the best format (to my ears) - DSD.  A dilemma, since I have many DSD files.

Comments?

With most fairly new DACs I can play DSD files packaged to PCM using DoP. How much do I need the true / direct DSD capability? I've thought, maybe not so much, since I can play direct DSD in my main system with my Teac NT-505 - no problem. But I have found that the ability to play direct DSD makes a big difference also in my low cost office system. A low cost DAC can sound much better, with pure or native DSD playback compared to standard PCM. 

.

I appreciate all the suggestions, very interesting, I look at their manuals and reviews - Bifrost 2-64, exaSound, Hidizs DAP.

@soix asked about budget. Maybe max 1200 USD. Depends on the sound quality. The Topping e30ii is an over-achiever at its low price level, especially when playing direct DSD with the pc volume disabled. Yet there is a huge gap to Teac NT-505 in my main system. The Teac sounds better in most ways. I want a new DAC to sound clearly better than the one I have, with the Teac NT-505 as my reference level. Up there, or above.

One more test - what exactly am I looking for, with a better DAC? Point of interest: testing two DACs playing pure / direct / native DSD. The low priced topping e30ii and the mid-priced Teac nt-505 dac-streamer. Testing my own DSD files, in this case: Traffic: John Barleycorn must die, recorded from my original 1970 Island LP. So the two DACs get the exact same DSD input.

Result - both sound quite good. But it is only when listening to the Teac that I come fully "into it" as a listener, tapping my feet, appreciating what the band tried to do, in this innovative recording. Wow! He MUST die!

Testing some more today, Steven Wilson: What life brings, in Nightowl headphones from Teac Nt-505 in main system vs Topping e30ii in office system. Streaming from Qobuz. - No contest, Teac is better. No surprise. But it is a gradient. Not night and day difference.

Maybe my budget should be 600 usd. This is still ca four times the price of the Topping. With a clear sonic improvement. If this is too much to ask for, maybe I should wait.

My office system is my secondary system. I dont want to reinvent the whole system, invest in a streamer, power conditioner, top grade cables, better speakers, amps or whatever. I like it as a modest system, specialized to my liking (single driver speakers, OTL sound etc).

Yet I do want to consider good-sounding DACs. This is also based on my experience from developing the analog chain in my main system, starting from the source (there, the cartridge) and going from there.

Yes, its a possibility. However it is a bit big for my desktop. And still quite expensive. And I am not sure I need the streamer part, since my ethernet connected laptop seems to work ok. Both streaming and playing DSD native from my hard disk. Not sure, what would be the typical symptoms that the streamer function needs upgrade?

@chayro - I looked at the Apos audio site, interesting, many options. Anyone you would consider?

I asked

what would be the typical symptoms that the streamer function needs upgrade?

this is much debated, on Audiogon and elsewhere...

I come to this digital debate from analog. There, also, opinions have been very divided, maybe the only thing that matters is the correct vinyl record speed, the pitch stability, or also the weight and timbre of different platters, the function of tonearms, and so forth, not to speak of diamonds and cartridges. You can't really stop. There are hundreds of maybe-relevant variables. But you have to stop somewhere - what are the main things that matter, to get excellent vinyl record playback.

So - is there a main rule? If you have acceptably good streaming (no obvious problems with hires pcm or dsd), what is the benefit of investing in better streaming, compared to a better dac? Like 10 / 90 percent? 30 / 70?

@chayro - thanks. They are on the other side of the globe (I live in Norway) but I will check them out. Qualified impartial advice is very valuable. And I've actually bought from Oakland before ; - )

I finally got around to disconnect the Teac NT-505 from my main system, carried it to the office system, and connected it there. The difference was larger than I had imagined, compared to my current solution (Thinkpad T14 laptop + Topping e30ii). My small office system sounds much better with the Teac. Both PCM streaming and DSD file playback. Not even a close match, compared to the Topping. In a way, not strange, considering the cost and effort involved.

I have no idea, how much is due to the improved streaming, or the better DAC, but I think it is both. The music both sounds better (I associate to the DAC) and seems more undisturbed (I associate to the streamer).

Thanks for advice, everyone. I am studying the links.

@mlsstl - yes another Teac NT-505 is an idea, since it matches my 'inquisitive' desktop system quite well, with its akm 'velvet' sound. I hesitate, regarding ess based dacs. However the Teac is not so easy to find around here, and still quite high in price.

We really need to read between the lines, now, in all the dac promotion texts that pose as reviews. I read one of my Topping e30ii. Yes good for its price level, but good, in an objective sense? Not to my ears. I could get a used Topping D90 for a fair price, but fear that it would be money out the window. Good measures dont neccessarily translate to good sound.

@mclinnguy - thanks, very interesting. I think you are (mostly) right. The implementation means a lot.