Best vintage DD turntables from the 70's and 80's?

YAMAHA GT-2000 has just jumped onto my radar

Have you seen both versions ? Look here for luxury 2000L version. 
It has a coreless motor, must be a great deck, SAEC made special version of their arm for Yamaha table. Not sure how easy user can change an arm if needed? 

 I found a nice Onkyo for ya. Only 33000 euro!

Deal, this is what i normally pay for one singel cartridge, so it's a bargain 



  

The question sounds like you are asking for a cost no object turntables ... ok ... EMT-930 and related models, Denon DP-100, Micro Seiki SX-8000 , J.C.Verdier , Victor TT-101 .. and special Miami Vice style for you is
Nakamichi TS1000

Don’t forget the Lewm’s Kenwood L-07D

There are also Garrard, Lenco, Thorens, Sony, Technics ...

I need this one for Christmas

@harold-not-the-barrel

Audioscope’s prices are crazy, the OP has bought a minty PD-444 from japanese seller on ebay just for $2k with two spare armboards and that was a bargain! Normally they are over $3k and each og armbase is about $150-200 minimum.

BTW The great alternative to the original arm bases are these from Italy.

Luxman sold PD-441, PD-444, PD-555 were naturally engineered by Micro Seiki : the PD-441 and PD-555 bear MITO T-Tags (MIcro Tokyo) on top of the "official" LUX T-Tag while the PD444 has an MTC T-Tag - which is also Micro. Check the source here @knollbrent

So the turntable engineered by Micro Seiki, but if the motor comes from JVC for Micro Seiki then i love it even more! It would be nice to have some proof of it, however. 

@harold-not-the-barrel

Chakster, yes that´s reasonably priced but its 110V so fits only in US and Japan. AudioScope´s is 230V for European audiophiles + has a warranty. How many vintage hyper decks have a full warranty ? Not so many.

It’s actually 100v for Japan market, 110v for USA is another one.
And 220-240v is the rarest, but i use my 100v Luxmans with step-down transformer from 220v to 100v, i’m using local step down transformers and they are retalively cheap, i have one 1000w for two Luxmans (this is an old photo, you can see my TT-101 in the corner, i don’t use those tube amps anymore :).

Japanese Toyozumi Dengenkiki step-down transformers are quieter, more expensive and probably much better, but i’ve never tried them.

People are crazy about step-down transformers when it comes to the Japanese amps, but i don’t think it’s so critical for a turntable, it’s all about correct voltage just to rotate the platter, there is no audio signal.

However, Nelson Pass told me it’s fine to use step-down trans for my 110v US version of First Watt F2J power amp, so i bought another 1000w step down trans (240 to 110v for US electronics). Maybe i will just ask his to ship me a trand for 220v to replace mine in the amp one day.

If someone is thinking that using a trep-down transformer for a turntable is bad idea please explain why ?

We have our @ateal with GT2000 and Fidelity-Reseach cartridges (R.I.P. Ikeda-San).

Nakamichi TX-1000 is limited edition, not so many units were made as far as i know. My audiophile fellow in Moscow has it, it’s extremely expensive turntable! My question: is it possible to use 1.8kg Micro Seiki mat on it or its self-centering system do the magic only with stock mat? @genesis168

I hate automatic turntables, especially the vintage automatic turntables.
If the owner of such turntables is not a DIYer then they must be serviced, refurbished, adjusted, calibrated etc. Many automatic turntables are broken, the electornics does not work well. How much the owners have to pay to restore them ?

The only automatic turntable which i’d like to have is this cute little 12inch size Technics SL-10 (and fully programmable SL-15 with 205 mk4 pmount cartridge), but ONLY if they are already refurbished by some specialista in Japan. Nice for a kitchen system.

Serious vintage turntables must be manual in my opinion. I just don’t trust this automatic sh*t

Automatic turntables are difinitely not the best turntables.

@sleepwalker65 

Have you seen this AT Safety Raiser ? Brand new device from Audio-Technica for lazy guys: "Designed to mount on a manual turntable, the AT6006R Safety Raiser automatically lifts the tonearm at the end of a record, protecting the stylus from damage."

I think it's nice option for manual turntables. 

the AT6006R Safety Raiser:
This is how it works , explained by Michael Fremer

  

yep, that the only automatic part that some of us may need when fall to sleep in the chair while listening an LP :)  Remote control for the amp volume control is another nice option. 

@edgewear

Actually I do and can recommend it highly. It was part of a Japan only series of three models. The PL-30L II and PL-50L II were the smaller ones with 9" tonearms, the PL-70 II was bigger with a 12" version. One might say that these tables were ’trickled down’ from the big P3 and P10 Exclusive tables. The styling and in particular the tonearms are very similar.

I agree, the PL-70II or P-10, i wish i could find one. They are so nice compared to modern Pioneer’s crapy turntables, the best ever MM cartridge designed for this Pioneer tonearm is PC-1000 mkII (Beryllium cantilever). Here is PC-1000 mkII MM on Pioneer P-3 turntable with removed wooden plinth, look what’s inside. Lewm’s favorite P-3 with coreless motor is amazing, read more about it.

PL-70-II is much cheaper alternative, but i would give them my prize for design.

P.S. All info about the cartridge: https://audio-heritage.jp/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/etc/pc-1000ii.html 

There are two versions of P3, the best one is P3-A - right ? 

Some people just don't understand that classic high-end only increased its value over the years on the used marked, while the new high-end only decreased in value once it leave the shop. New Technics turntables will be availabe for the next 20 years and the price will be lower on the used market (except for the limited edition model). Some of the best vintage DD turntables getting rare and highly collectible. Some of them are incredibly good compared to the most new turntables. Like a classic cars they have charming design compared to the ugly turntables of today.    

You’d better ask jpjones about new vs. old Technics.

In my opinion square chassis of SP-10mkIII is not good for two tonearms, the plinth must be huge for two arms and the arms must be "12 inch ideally. Stock Obsidian plinth is not designed for two tonearms, not even for "12 inch tonearm. My teak wood custom plinth was big even for one tonearm, imagine how big it must be for two tonearms. Normally plinth makers asking for a plinth more than we paid for turntable.

Here is a pic of my old Technics with several tonearms:
1) Schick "12 inch + SPU
2) EPA-100 "10.5 + ZYX Airy III EPA-100
3) Reed 3P "12 + Glanz 61
4) Without arms and plinth on Audio-Technica pneumatic footers.

This is a kind of plinth i really like (visually), you can compare two different kinds: https://oswaldsmillaudio.com/technics

BUT here is OMA Technics without square chassis!

Imagine the price for OMA plinth :)
and then the price for each armboard if you want to change the arm.

P.S. Victor TT-101 is more user friendly for many tonearms, here is a nice blog of Tuchan: https://audiocirc.com/2016/04/08/a-good-table-deserves-a-good-plinth/

Anyway each time i think about custom plinth it’s a P.I.T.A., because someone have to make them and it’s too complicated if you don’t have the right person to deal with.

This is the reason i love my pair of Luxman PD-444, i can forget about that plinth problem, i can use any tonearms i want, i can install them quickly and swap them quickly.

@knollbrent just to tease (jpjones blog):

SP-10mkIII http://fidelisanalog.com/2018/04/22/nos-technics-sp-10mk3-maiden-voyage/ 

SP-10R http://fidelisanalog.com/2018/05/25/technics-sp-10r-unboxing/#more-939 

Victor TT-101 http://fidelisanalog.com/2016/11/25/barn-find-victor-tt-101/ 

@best-groove 

haha, definitely without arms :)) 
but only to look at, i've never tried in action as i don't have tonearm pod, but i think it must be pretty good if the owner will have one or two tonearm pods and those special preumatic footers. With tonearm pods everyone could swap the arm quickly, but the platrorm under the turntable/pods must be nice too. 

@br3098 

When I worked for RSL in the 1970s we were a Luxman dealer. As I recall, the Luxman repair tech that would come by the stores occasionally told me that the PD-441 and PD-444 motors were designed for Luxman and manufactured by Teac.

Interesting. Are you sure ? 

TT-101 going right to JP Jones from here in a huge bullet proof package. My sample is working, excellent condition, here i’m checking the pitch for the last time. After complete restoration it will be Brent’s first flying saucer (I have another one for myself here).

According to this gentleman’s video-he is swapping motor and power supply on a Luxman PD-441 Which purportedly uses the same motor, the motors manufacturer is Mitsubishi.....

Wow, Mitsubishi.
Another Japanese giant. 

I have yet to attempt to fit my FR-64fx with b-60 base- it may not fit on the right side….

It will, on whatever side, I’m using 64s with B60 and 64FX with N60.
Look on the right turntable in my system

I recently picked up a Luxman PD-444 and have installed my Sony PUA-7

PUA-7 is perfect for Luxman, this is my ex PUA-7 I shipped to Brent few years ago.
Here is my system about 5 years ago with PUA-7 and Lustre GST-801, I’m still using Lustre

If you have original PUA-7 (sold as separate unit) you have to drill additional hole in LUX armbase, here is mine in process. This tiny hole is on the right side of the SONY template.

@dronepunk If you recently picke up LUX PD-444 you need SAES SS-300 mat or MICRO SEIKI CU-180 mat. Ask if you need help with those mats. 

I like LUX PD-444 because it's so easy to swap tonearms and adjust them. Battle between high mass and light mass tonearms on the same turntable is fascinating. This week my low compliance Miyajima (Edison) MC is next to recently unboxed high compliance SONY XL-50 MM. Tonearms are Lustre GST-801 (heavy) vs. Denon DA-401 (light). Here is the image.   

How about this mega rare ONKYO PX-100M ?

It was 500 000 Yen in 1981 and only about 100 units made.

One available now for 19 900 EURO here in mint condition :)

I think it’s one of the most beautiful DD turntables. Gunmetal platter and excellent design.

*read more about technical aspect

Why no one can make stuff like this today? It’s state of the art design in my opinion. German catalog here.

Even €20k for a limited edition high-end DD made in 1981 (~100 units) is better than ungly modern belt drive junk I see on the market today for higher price!

His prices are high, but where else you can buy a MINT condition unit from 1981 if only 100 made.

Even if his prices are too high the units on his site are still better than most of the new turntables at the same price. And his vintage turntables are minty fresh like they are made yesterday. Great opportunity for rich people to buy amazing stuff :) 

I'm sure that is what we were told by the Luxman rep; that Teac manufactured the motors to Luxman's specifications. Having said that, I am not sure that it is true. For some reason the owners frowned upon sales folks disassembling expensive gear.

But it does make sense. The PD-441/444 motor does bear more than a passing resemblance to that used in the original Teac TN-400.

Serviced PD-441 this guy claimed the motor is made by Mitsubishi , here is the video. 
Before that several member of this forum claimed it could be made by Victor, Micro, or even by Teac. 

Jonathan Weiss demonstrate DD turntable motor from 1927 (Western Electric) in this video.

Based on my reading, personal experience, and many visits to Japan, my list of the best would include, in no particular order:

Sony PSX9,
Yamaha GT2000X,
Technics SP10 Mk3,
Kenwood L07D,
Luxman PD441,
Pioneer Exclusive P3,
Denon DP100M and DN308,

and I’d be willing to add the Onkyo PX100M on faith. What have I missed? Victor TT101/801, I guess. Honorable mention to Denon DP80/75 and a few Pioneer models below the P3. Anyone want to add to this "ultimate" list, without compromising too much?

@lewm Good to see LUX PD-441 (small one) in your list, but why not PD-444 (big one) ? Or it was a typo? 

He described Belt Drives in 3 words :)) 

I think on page 5 people just post what they have (or used decades ago), but the OP question was about “THE BEST” from 70’s/80’s. 
Or just like he said: 

I’d like to hear suggestions and comments on some fantastic, cool as crap, vintage turntables that you think should sit next to the Luxman.

This is Luxman and this is Victor that OP already have next to his new Technics GR. 

Lenco is nice, but the title of this topic is Direct Drive

@chakster thanks, I already own the SAEC SS-180 mat.

SAES SS-300 or MICRO CU-180 :)
You mixed up the brands and numbers

To use all of them you will have to make a carousel around tt-101 , lol @knollbrent

Took 11 month at JP’s lab

 I learned to do it myself for repair turntables so that I no longer have to depend on anyone.

@best-groove but you could’t fix your Victor for ages yourself until I mentioned hall sensor that JP replaced for Brent. 

It was September 2019 when I shipped my spare TT-101 in the boiler box to Fidelis Analog where it was re-capped, adjusted and calibrated, and the hall sensor has been replaced... everything was done by @jpjones3318

I’m super excited about this project and it’s nice to see restored TT-101 spinning @knollbrent listening room in Florida.

I’m also excited about the original Victor dual arm plinth that I shipped in another super heavy parcel (it was huge).

Veneered by Brent’s carpenter in Miami it look so nice (new teak wood veneer over the original victor mdf).

P.S. I have another Victor TT-101 here in a smaller plinth for one tonearm. 

Oops. Actually it was shipped in September 2020 (not in 2019), I forgot we are in 2021 now :)