What headphone own natural timbre and own a deep bass clean and with no leak in the mids and more importantly an "out of the head" speaker like impression with great hall recordings or church one for example ? I enjoy that only with my Akg K340 , none of the others headphones i had listend too ... I dislike almost all headphones... I apologize to repeat myself wanting to be clear... If someone know which headphone did the same please give me his name ... |
it is the precise reason why the RAAL is the only headphone i am interested to ... I will compare it to my K340 optimized... Out of the head impression is mandatory for me if i want to appreciate headphone... It is the reason why i am also interested by the BACCH filters ... I must add that my K340 produce deep bass listening organ for example that i felt with my body and are speaker like or at least completely different from headphone bass inside the head only... |
Contrary to you i read someone post BEFORE infering FALSE claim about it... i dont slammed you body...😁 I just make the remark that you dont have listen to my modified headphone the K340 , claiming as you did you listened to all if not most TOP one even those as you said i " could never able to afford" which is as formulated such a bit insulting... Secondly i said that AS YOURSELF , i disliked headphones and prefer speakers...If you had read my post before claiming i slammed you you would have understand that some headphones as the RAAL or my K340 differ vastly from other headphones...... The one pratronizing other here is you...I dont claim anything save to correct your claim about listening all headphones set up... This is false because it is impossible... As you i prefer speakers... But my K340 modified and optimized with his dual acoustic chamber with 5 passively tuned resonators resemble nothing you had listened too dude😊 ... And i correct you mistaking claim that headphone dont have their own room shell acoustic because it is one of the main attribute which make the K340 unique... Read before patronizing me about what i could or could not afford and before claiming you know it all ... You dont... This is my "mumblings" here as you said ... Other will read my answer and make their opinion... I give argument not patronizing veiled insult and pretentious universal claim valid for everyone... And dont insult me about what i could or not afford, and about my " mumblings", and about the fact that you never dare to read my post but you answer them in your american active patronizing discourteous way,..
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You cannot had listen mine... The AKG K340 and even if you did, they must be optimized and it takes me 6 months to do it rightfully with 6 modifications... Anyway, the ratio price ( 100 bucks used) sound quality beat anything and perhaps your own system...But only seeing an image i am pretty sure your system beat headphones...But not all , give me the BACCH filters and i will stay with them .... by the way the reason why the AKG K340 beat all headphones i had listened to is precisely the acoustic patent of the designer the two hybrid cells , dynamical and electroacoustic are distributed along the same axis in a dual acoustic chamber with 5 passive tuned resonators...And my own modifications are acoustics too ...Remember that the shell of an headphone is a room...😊 Even if most headphone designer ignore this because of cost and profit even high end one ... Kennerton representative when i ask him why they do not design an hybrid as the K340 answer to me: it is too hard to do with too much cost in research... Thats say something ... You go too fast to your conclusion... And even if you are right i am not too far behind you for a ridiculous price... Eq. is an acoustic controls i used it with my headphone optimization , I dont use it as a toy for each songs...
By the way i always disliked all headphones... Till i was in the obligation selling my house to use one before setting my small speakers right ...Now i love headphones at least mine ...And remember it is recording dependant, but the K340 is able to reproduce the acoustic atmosphere of the recording ...The sound of many albums is out of my head speaker like so much i keep my eyes open to "see" the musicians... I only need the BACCH filters as upgrade to refine that... Anyway at 100 bucks i am envious of no one... Even of the headphone you claimed i could never afford...😊 With your budget you could not do what i did even with a pair Of K340... They are not ready out of the box... We must learn how to use them... An astute headphone critic of stereophile do a negative review bec ause he did not understand what they are and how to optimize them... It is the most complex headphone designed...
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it is true ONLY if you compared with headphones where the sound STAY in the head...Most headphones ( But not mine ) And most speakers/room are not acoustically optimal, even if yours is by the way... 😁
And if you have a TOP speakers/room anyway have you heard all headphones ?
If i add the BACCH filters i will rival your speakers/room if i did not rival already it with a 100 bucks headphone ( AKG K340 ) ...Not bad ... By the way the bass is so good i felt it with my feet (bones conduction ) . Perhaps you go too far here about ALL headphones... In truth it is up to budget and creativity... All speakers/room are not equals nor all headphones... The only factor that rules audio is acoustics not gear choice claimed as the only meaningful choice for all... We dont need a pope ... 😊
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yyzsantabarbara soundqcar
Thanks... Your impressions help me a lot to understand ... I dislike headphone... The only one i enjoy is my modified AKG K340 with which i had all characteristics i dream of... My question was motivated by the fact that my AKG K340 is old ... If i lost it tomorrow i buy what ? My soundfield is out of the head speaker like and any other characteristics is there too... What can i do if i lost it ? i am afraid to buy anything else , but your two impressions give me the assurance that i could buy something rivallling my experience ... Thanks a lot... you described what i did not read in other reviews so clearly ... The Raal is my only other headphone solution....
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I just read a review about the Raal: timbre, bass, highs, imaging and soundstage everything as usual... The reviewer mention anything save the only thing that matter to me... For classical recording because i listen them most, Is the soundfield or soundstage of the Raal stay in the head ? Or have you the impression to be projected in the recording acoustic as if you were there... Or have you the impression that the recorded atmosphetre fill your room and do you keep the eyes open to see the instruments? All headphones soundfield soundstage stay in the head, i want one with a soundstage "out of my head" ? I want to have the impression to listen to speakers with deep bass ? Is the RAAL able to deliver that?
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😊State of the art sound for a relatively low cost is one of my headphone systems:
Hidizs dac+equalizer+battery= 200 bucks...( low noise floor) Sansui alpha 607i = 300 bucks ( one of the best amplifier ever designed by Sansui) AKG K340 the only really hybrid headphone ever made ( the electrostatic cell is not a super tweeter as in the Dharma case) = 100 bucks ... The K340 optimized( it takes me 6 month to figure out his working) can give an out of the head speaker like experience with natural timbre perception and deep bass ...
At 600 bucks i beat everyone ... It is my main audiophile system ... Even if i like the small speakers system i own ( low cost) which modified beat all headphones i ever listened to save the K340 .. I apologize to yyzsantabarbara for my irresistible urge to bragg about my own low cost high end system ...😊 I am sure he will laugh and forgive me , thanks to him ... I am certainly curious to listen to the Raal ... I will be afraid to buy one without listening before so astounding are my K340 the best headphone in the world in 1978 even better than Stax because of deep bass and out of the head experience with more natural timbre thanks to the passive internal resonators of Dr, Gorike and his complex dual acoustic chamber accomodating the two cells dynamic and electrostatic one behind the other ......
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By "hard to drive" i refer to not only amplification qualities, but also to the source... The right pad is mandatory....I tried 5 types of pads before the right one... Right thickness and one with the hole vented for me... Right amplification , not only powerful but with a very low noise floor ... I must have changed my beloved sansui Au 7700 to use a very more refined Sansui Alpha with a more clean less tube-like sound... Right source : i must change my beloved tube-like NOS french dac tda 1543 , for a cleaner less noisy more cold Hidizs ap 80 pro dac ( not connecded to the grid and with battery too ) .. i throw off the internal plastic grid.... I put two kind of vibrations control materials inside and outside... I used equalization to go nearer the Harman curve and increase the Db level around 1,200 hertz...And at the two extreme point of the scale... After all that i can say that all my 9 others headphone sound as unnatural , with an "inside the head sound" impression , and like "plastic" artificial sound so much i NEVER used them again... And will never do...There is even 2 Stax models ... After the optimization the K 340 is unbeatable on all acoustic factors...I discovered tuning my room at the times 4 factors of the soundfield , not two, i did not count "timbre" as a factor of the soundfield ,it is the fifth factor timbre is the fundamental tree and the soil at the same time , the other 4 factors are like the ground...We test a fertile ground by observing the tree growth and varying the ground composition ... 1) Imaging differentiation of each sound sources... 2) Soundstaging VARYING dimensions according to each recording encompassing all sound sources ... 3) Holographic volume of each sound sources... 4) Listener envelopment born from the right ratio between sound sources and the imaginary listener position in the soundfield "outside the head" most of the time to varying degree accordingly to each recording trade-off ... These 4 aspects of the soundfield were there in my speakers/room acoustic control relation , and they were there with the K340... No other headphone gave me that... Perhaps top omega Stax i listened long time ago but never own...The "timbre" experience of the K340 is so natural , that the only adjective i can use is realistic...Not one of any other adjective used by reviewers about voices... Realistic , not gorgeous, not beautiful, not the " most extraordinary mids voices ever" etc Only natural... 😊 For example my Stax sr5 -gold seems to gave the most beautiful timbre of voice possible , but not so natural and evident as the K340... Realism is the most important quality for a timbre the most difficult and only necessary one ... I cannot fault the AKG K340 on any acoustic count... If something beat it it must be costly and because it is an hybrid with 5 tuned passive internal resonators , his soundfield is so unique , nothing will crush it to pieces... But "right of the box" i could have faulted it as some reviewers did , unable to understand how to optimize it... There is NO MISMATCH between the drivers for example, this impression may come because of all the necessary modifications that must be implemented i listed above.... This is a very hard headphone to figure out... I even read his patent and ittakes me 6 months of experiments to optimize it to this point... I will never upgrade it... Why ? It is the stronger link of my system and his back bone... I consider my system now top high-fi because of the K340... I could not say this with my acoustic room /Mission Cyrus 781, because of the limitations of the frequency response of the Mission Cyrus speakers so good they were, they were not top high fi product... AQcoustic control of the room so important it is does not change a component quality but just put it at his highest potential working level ...
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Try to compare your impression of the Raal with other headphones you listened too , qwhat are the differences... It is not simple to put in words... What past headphone3s you owned and the RAAL beat and why ? Thanks for your time...
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Thanks Soix... Three geniuses interest me in audio now... I know only one by his product... The three are physicist loving music, and in two cases two acoustician... Dr. Gorike is an underestimated genius who designed the best of AKG because he founded the company after the second world war... His K340 is the most advanced design since Stax... He patented his acoustic specifically tuned resonators grid creating a dual acoustic chamber making the headphone Speaker like in sound... I even read his patent... He used Helmholtz principle of resonators as i did my way with 100 in my room... :) Dr. Gorike located them at a specific location around the dynamic driver behind the electro-acoustic cell... so with this dual chamber he fooled the brain with the back wave incoming in differential timing with the direct wave of the two drivers helping the brain to recreate a 3-D speaker like impression in a room... And it was way better than even my two Stax or my planar experience or better than any dynamics i owned ... No comparison...But this K340 was terminated because too costly to made and too complex to figure out right by most consumers and very picky to drive, more hard than the HE 6 and hard to optimize at an era where headphone amplifier for portable headphone emerged ... It takes me 6 months to figure out how to optimize them .. Dr. Choueri created virtual room acoustic with his patented BACCH filters ... it is a revolution which make headphone or speakers optimal for localization without loss in timbre quality...He works in plasma physics but listen too much music all his life... Acoustic bein g his hobby...His dac is the ultimate dac... Dr. Berning a physicist who revolutionized tube amplification completely... I dont understand why people stick to hot tubes with short life in the old tube technology... He worked as physicist but also loved too much music and coupled it with his physics knowledge to redesign amplification from ground zero...
Thats the main revolutionary things in audio for me ... I dont know if i will be able to afford a Berning ZOTL before dying and a Choueri dac but the K340 help me to be happy so much good it is ... Then all is ok... But true audiophile always dream even happy... ;) i dream but with no frustration thanks to Dr. Gorike... My very best to you with a silent prayer for your next months...
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Thanks very much for your kind answer... I hope all will be better for you at the end of this hard time...Sorry for you... I dont want to miss your compared impressions... Feel free to remind me about it here... I will wait... Berning ZOTL is my dreamed amplifier.... My very best to you...
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Soix please describe for me the improvement over your last amplifier ( which one ) and the linear audio MZ2 because i am interested by Berning design... Thanks very much for the trouble... I dreamed to buy one because i dont think much amplifier inder 5,000 bucks will beat my Sansui alpha...
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For me the AKG K340... They were the flagship of AKG 40 years ago... Their double new innovative technologies at the times are always new even today... First : Hybridation of dynamic cell with electrostatic... Second: An array of tuned Helmholtz resonators inside creating a dual acoustic chamber... Kennerton cie said to me they tried for years to design a working hybrid without success... That speak volume about the task... Too complex and then too costly to make and too much research to create a good really working design... AKG terminate the K340 not because it was not a good design, it was the best they ever create, patented by Dr. Gorike, one of the founder, but they terminate it because not only they are difficult to drive as the Hifiman He 6 , but they are most picky for their amplification than any headphone...( not surprizing because they are two cells inside and a crossover transformer and a grid of resonators) And without optimization work inside them and around them ( in my case 6 modifications) , they may present an "apparent" mismatch, of variable size, between the two drivers speed dependant of the way you use them...But this apparent mismatch come mostly from our habit of listening to ONLY SINGULAR DRIVER headphone with no resonators inside...We must learn how to listen to a new soundfield experience to understand how to use them and which modification to implement... The soundfield of the K340 is unique and when optimized is SPEAKER-LIKE and natural and dependant of the recording album and give me "OUT OF THE HEAD" complete experience ... All my other headphones sound artificial, always inside my head, and to be frank are used only in my trashbin or for the computer needs now ... Not for music... And i tried 2 Stax, two planar, many dynamics, they all never compare to my speakers/dedicated room at all anyway unlike the K340 ... The K340 alas! is too difficult to understand for " beginners", i will not recommend it bec ause i dont want the responsability of misguiding people, and the K340 will present apparent mismatch, and boominess, that completely DISAPPEAR when optimized with the right source, amplification, pads, cables, equalization for each cell, and some modification for vibrations controls inside and the cut off of the protecting obstructing plastic grid between ears and one of the cell which was only there to protect the product not for acoustic... In the scale SOUND QUALITY /PRICE paid, nothing can beat them i paid them 100 bucks... ...And we will wait to see another TRUE hybrid because of complexity of design and cost...The Enigma Dharma was not a true hybrid using only an electrostatic cell at 12,000 hertz as a super tweeter...Not as the K340 at 4000 hertz where the living presence of voices and piano are located ...Here the two cells work together at the same degree... And the Dharma own no internal tuned resonators which make possible not only a 3-D holographical sound but make possible deep and extended bass completely clear under 30 hertz... The K340 is unique and will stay so....i can replace all my other components and upgrade.... Not the K340.... No headphone will beat it on ALL acoustic counts only on some factors separately and the price will be in the many thousand dollars to do so not the 100 bucks i paid for... I even discovered a new acoustic factor listening to them which is nowhere mentionned and used in reviews of headphone , i never experienced this acoustic factor with any other headphone... The thre main acoustic factor are: ---Distortion ---Timbre ---Immersiveness
Immersiveness is made in all reviews by all reviewers of two acoustic factors: ---Imaging differentiation of each sound source ... --- Soundstaging dimensions of ALL sound source together But most reviewers never described this one THIRD factor clearly : --- Holographical 3-D volume associated with each sound sources accordingly to the ORIGINAL RECORDING as it is translated in a VOLUME SPACE for each instruments and chords by the headphone...Not a 2-d surface... Why most reviewers missed this acoustic THIRD important factor of immersiveness ? Because the Hybridation of the K340 with the internal set of 5 tuned Hemlholtz resonators work inside the shell acoustically as the many Helmholtz resonators i used in my dedicated room worked, making me able to feel this holographical volume for each instrument and chords in my room ... In my other headphone this holographical volume of each sound source or instruments is nearly reduced to a surface INSIDE the head...The soundfield of the K340 is never inside the head but around the head at worst or outside it partially or completely, it is recording dependant, a recorded church chorus dont give the same soundstage than a small jazz trio in a studio... Then the immersiveness factor which in a room is determined by the acoustic ratio between the sound source (ASW) and the listener envelopment trade off balance, or ASW/LEV, is, with the shell/drivers of the K340 , translating the recorded album, determined by the acoustic content of the cups to recreate this ASW/LEV ratio ... And the Helmholtz principle of absorption/diffusion/reflection play the same in a room or in a shell... And the dual chamber inside the K340, created by back waves and direct waves ratio differences between the two cell and the action of the passive tuned resonators FOOL the brain and compensate in a way for the lack of crossfeed and time delay we experienced with speakers...The time delay between back waves and direct waves in the shell fool our brain and make us able to recreate an holographical 3-d localization outside the head...Dr. Gorike was a genius... Most reviewers miss it completely... And they perceived mismatch where there is none because they were not able to understand the specific acoustic properties of this marvel... Then immersiveness in headphone listening is related to three factors not two... The complete soundfield dimensions immersiveness are : imaging, soundstage and 3-D holography... I experienced it with the K340... Not with any of my 9 others headphone, all with singular driver in empty acoustic shell as most headphone at any price are mostly ... Dr. Gorike, i learned it reading his patent, is a physicist specialized in acoustic not an electrical engineer... Thats tell the tale... For sure this K340 will not replace a Choueri BACCH filters DAC, but i can live without it , to some degree it approximate speakers listenings in a way any other headphone cannot... :) |
