@maguiar102
I happened to stumble upon this thread today and I’ve been absent from Audiogon forum for a while.
All the equipments you are looking at or are intending to purchase are great and it all comes down to system synergy and personal tastes or preferences. But I still think that the most important piece of equipment(s) will be the quality of your front end source components whether it’s analog front end source components eg turntable, tonearm, cartridge, phonostage pre or digital front end source component(s) eg CD/SACD player, streamer/DAC or streamer + DAC, etc. This is where the low level signal source starts. If you start or begin with some mediocre source (low level signal) and this mediocre low level signal source will be further amplified downstream and the overal end result will not be optimal.
You mentioned that currently you are using a cheap 10 year old Acam CD player and the Oppo 203 as your digital front end source components for your stereo music listening. While your 10 year old Arcam CD player or the Oppo 203 will be fine for budget setups and systems but since you will be purchasing some serious setup/system IMO your 10 year old Arcam CD player and your Oppo 203 will be the weakest link in the chain and will not be good enough for the kind of setup/system that you are considering to purchase. And as a result the entire setup/system will not be able to perform and sound optimally by using your 10 year old Arcam CD player or your Oppo 203 as your 2ch source of music.
Arcam makes very good AVR and AV processor but not CD player. Their CD players and DAC are mediocre quality.
I would highly consider upgrading your front end source component(s) first and foremost before upgrading your pre/amp or integrated and speakers. You can use the Oppo 203 as a bluray/4K UHD transport connected via HDMI to your new prospective AVR or AV processor for movie playbacks. Oppo makes great bluray/4K bluray players. Their video processings are very good.
There are countless options and choices to consider when upgrading from your 10 year old Arcam CD player, depending on your budget. The front end source component(s) are the most important equipment in hifi chain. IMO it isn’t worth getting high end expensive speakers, amp, etc if you’re only using some entry level or mediocre quality front end source component(s). The overall end result will not be optimal and you won’t be satisfied with the overall performance of your entire system setup.
When you visited a high end hifi audio show they are using very good front end source components in all high end setups and systems. Dealers also usually use very competent high end front end source components for their serious high end setups/systems.
They won’t be using the Oppo 203 or an Arcam CD player for some serious setups/systems costing $50k and up or $100k and up.
They will be out of place and the overall end sonic result will suffer tremendously.
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@bwguy
Highly possible and very likely since the Lumin T2 is a dedicated stereo DAC/music streamer. Although I’ve never tried it but the Lumin T2 seemed highly regarded and received very positive reviews and feedbacks. Give it a try.
I highly recommend using the WireWorld Platinum USB cable to connect to your USB DAC input on your Sigma SSP. It's way better than Audioquest Diamond USB.
Other option besides the Lumin T2 would be a highly regarded PS Audio DirectStream DAC but it retails for more money than the Lumin T2. |
@bwguy
You should try out the Lumin T2 or if you can find a used PS Audio DirectStream DAC I highly recommend that.
Good luck and let us know what you end up getting and how they would compare.
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@maguiar102
The Lumin T2 is highly regarded by many and received good reviews but I personally haven’t heard it yet. But I have heard the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and I highly recommend it to you. You will be able to find a used one for $5k and less probably around $4kish. Its original MSRP is around $7kish or perhaps $7500. The PS Audio DirectStream DAC was also very highly praised and regarded and received outstanding reviews especially for the money It’s probably one of the best sounding DAC for under $10k.
I suspect the PS Audio DirectStream DAC would be superior to the Lumin T2.
If you decide to keep using your Arcam CD player for spinning CD, I suggest you can use your Arcam as a CD transport and connect connect your Arcam using coax digital cable to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC or the Lumin T2, whichever you will end up with.
Does your Arcam CD player have a coax digital audio output? |
@maguiar102
Did you already buy the Lumin T2? Cause I just realized that the Lumin T2 is actually a digital streamer that has internal DAC and it does not have coax digital or optical digital audio inputs. It only has Ethernet & USB inputs. So if you end up with the Lumin T2 then you won't be able to connect your Arcam CD player using coax digital cable to the T2.
However, the PS Audio DirectStream DAC does have coax digital input so if you end up with the PS Audio DirectStream DAC you would be able to use your Arcam as a cd transport and connect the Arcam to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC using coax digital cable.
I highly recommend the PS Audio DSD DAC as it would most likely sound better than the DAC in the T2 Lumin. Or you can purchase the Lumin T2 and use it as a digital streamer and connect the T2 to the PS Audio DSD DAC using digital cable cause I just saw the back of the Lumin T2 and it does have a digital audio out to pair the T2 with an external better DAC such as that of the PS Audio DSD DAC.
To answer your question regarding the benefit of using a coax digital cable out of your Arcam CD player is to utilize a better external DAC such as that of the PS Audio DSD DAC. So you will be using your Arcam as a CD transport only and sending digital signal to the PS Audio DSD DAC so the PS Audio DSD DAC does the digital-to-analog conversion process.
But this is only possible if you end up buying the PS Audio DSD DAC since the Lumin T2 does not have a digital coax input. If you're using analog out of your Arcam CD player to connect to your integrated amp or preamp it means that you're using the Arcam's internal DAC thus the Arcam does the digital-to-analog conversion process.
Hope this helps. |
@maguiar102
Yes, the PS Audio DirectStream DAC is a way to go and will elevate the performance of your system to the next level. Your Arcam CD player is old and digital audio eg CD player, DAC DSP, etc, etc improves over time and have gone significant improvement since your Arcam CD player was first released in early 2000's. Even for back then your Arcam CD player was never considered a high end or excellent CD player it was fairly good even for back then.
Or you should just sell your Arcam CD player and just use your Oppo 203 as a CD transport and connect your Oppo 203 using coax digital audio cable to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC for CD playbacks and connect the Oppo 203 using HDMI to your AV preamp processor or AVR for movies. Oppo is a good transport for the money.
That way you will have some more fund available to use by selling your Arcam CD player. I bet you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between using your Arcam and the Oppo 203 as CD transport only. Both are probably comparable when used as a CD transport. Make sure you make AB comparison between using your Oppo 203 as a CD transport vs using your Arcam as a CD transport into the PS Audio DirectStream DAC. If using the Arcam as a transport gives you better sonic result then keep the Arcam as CD transport only, and just use the Oppo 203 for movie playbacks via HDMI to your AVR or AV preamp processor.
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@maguiar102
I’ve heard the Pass INT250 on different speakers, not on the Verity, so can’t comment. I’ve heard a different model Verity speakers a while back on different set of amps and electronics. Haven’t heard the Otello. The Pass INT250 was good when I heard it on different speakers.
All the integrated amps that you are considering above are very good : Accuphase, Pass, Luxman, T&A, Levinson. It all depends on the synergy with the associated gears such as the speakers, front end source component(s), cablings. Do not skimp on cablings, all kinds of cables including power cables and digital cables, not only speaker cables and analog interconnects (XLR or RCA).
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@maguiar
Transparent makes awesome cables. Stick with Transparent and if you want to upgrade just move up the Transparent line. Shunyata Research also makes excellent cables. I prefer them (both Transparent & Shunyata) over Audioquest. Nordost, Kimber Cable, Chord Cables, WireWorld also make great quality cables.
Shunyata & Transparent are usually smoother and tonally on the warmer side, especially the Shunyata.
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@eziggy
@maguiar
I like both Transparent cables and Shunyata, but I prefer Transparent cables especially for both of my dedicated reference two-channel setups/systems and found that they are better choices for my reference two-channel setup/system and have great synergy with all my 2ch equipments. So In both of my dedicated reference stereo setups/systems I’m using all Transparent cablings : Transparent Magnum Opus (last gen) speaker cables, XLR interconnects, power cables and phono cables for my turntable. For digital cables I’m using a combination of Transparent Ref XL & Premium. But for AC power products I’m using Shunyata Research Hydra Typhon QR / Triton combo for both of my dedicated reference stereo setups / systems.
However, for my dedicated reference home theater room (setup) I’m using all Shunyata Research Sigma cablings (speaker cables for front LCR & surrounds, XLR analog interconnects, power cables) and Shunyata Delta speaker wires for my in-ceiling Atmos speakers and found them to be a better match for my dedicated HT gears.
For HDMI cables I’m using a Nordost Valhalla 2 HDMI and a Transparent Premium HDMI.
For AC power product for this dedicated theater setup room I’m using 2 Audioquest Niagara 7000.
I agree with auxinput’s comment to get cables that use solid core conductors.
Maguiar, you will also need to take care of your AC line for your hifi electronics. You should get a dedicated and upgraded AC line for your hifi electronics to make sure you have a clean incoming AC line, and get a good quality AC power product. Shunyata & Audioquest Niagara are among the good ones eg Shunyata Hydra or Denali products as well as Audioquest Niagara 7000 or 5000.
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@maguiar
Overall I found Transparent cables better than Audioquest but would generally cost lot more than Audioquest. All Transparent, Audioquest, Shunyata Research, Kimber Cable, Nordost, etc come with wide price ranges starting from couple hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. For example, Transparent Wave speaker cables, which is an entry level, retail for $250 to $300 per 10 foot pair whereas the Transparent Magnum Opus speaker cables cost at least $65k per 10 foot pair.
Shunyata Research also makes outstanding cables and AC power products but are very pricey. Shunyata products are also used by many professional advance mastering or recording studios eg Abbey Road studios, etc. Lot of hospitals also use Shunyata AC power products for their highly sensitive medical equipments.
Furman AC power products are good but I think the Audioquest Niagara and Shunyata Denali or Hydra power products are better than Furman IMO.
PS Audio also makes excellent AC power products. There are countless other options out there. |
@eziggy
To answer your question, it depends on your amps and whether or not your AC line & wall outlet(s) have been upgraded or not. If your amps aren’t high current amps and don’t consume that much you can plug it to your Furman. What kind of amp(s) do you have?
In one of my dedicated reference stereo setup I have a pair of Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps and these are very high current amps so they are plugged directly to the wall but I have dedicated lines and all the lines and wall outlets & circuit breakers in my listening rooms have been upgraded to much higher amperage and using high quality and upgraded witings, higher grade circuit breakers, etc, etc. So only my Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps that are plugged directly to the wall since these amps can burst into 6KW (6000 watts) into 1 ohm per channel, and the rest of my gears are plugged to my Shunyata Hydra Typhon NR Triton combo products. The toroidal transformer power supply of these amps are about the size of a Mini Cooper wheel and the amp has the largest power supply capacitors you will ever see. Each amp (each channel) weighs about 235 pounds per channel.
In my other reference stereo setup I have 2 pairs of Audio Research Reference 750 SE vacuum tube monoblock amps both-amping the Sonus Faber Aida ll speakers and these amps are plugged directly to the wall since these are also very high current amps and the rest of the equipments are plugged to the Shunyata Hydra Typhon QR Triton combo products. Been major works done with all the AC lines and wall outlets in this listening room too.
But in my dedicated reference theater room I have 2 AQ Niagara 7000 power products. Everything are plugged to them except my 2 JL Audio Gotham subwoofers that are plugged directly to the wall. All my big Classe Delta series class AB amps are plugged to the two AQ Niagara 7000. I have 3 big Classe Delta CAM600 class AB monoblock amps driving my front LCR speakers, 2 Classe Delta CA-2300 class AB stereo amps driving my surround speakers and an NAD M27 seven-channel amp driving my 6 height ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos setup. So everything including the preamp processor, Oppo 205 player are plugged to two AQ Niagara 7000.
All the AC lines and wall outlets circuit breakers have been worked on. |
@eziggy
You can plug your Luxman integrated to your Furman.
In regards to your comment on these Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps, not only the power reserves it has that impressed me, but most importantly that impressed me most is their musicality, subtlety, dynamics, etc. Paired with the Naim Statement NAC S1 linestage analog stereo preamp and highly capable or other cost-no-object design front end source components (both digital & analog) you are treated with absolute best musicality, rhtym, etc and these Naim Statement gears (preamp & monoblock amps) are best at conveying the emotional expressions of the artists/musicians, assuming you have highly capable front end source components eg turntable, phonostage, CD/SACD player, DAC or streamer/DAC, etc and speakers. I’ve never heard music sounding this fluid full body blossom and effortless with these Naim Statement gears (pre + amps) in the signal chain coupled with some most highly capable front end source components (digital or analog or both).
These Naim Statement pre & amps simply don’t sound, you are simply hearing a true musical reproductions and representations. Music simply blossoms to its fullest and is soo efortless and sooo fluid. They excel in all areas as they should be considering their design concept topology and design goals and prices of these Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps. But again in order to achieve absolute best musicality you must have a very highly capable front end source component(s), whether digital or analog or both, to pair with these Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps. The quality of your front end source components (turntable or digital front end source components) are the most important element(s) in the hifi chain and it is where the musical signal sources start or begin, not the preamp or power amps or integrated amp.
And I can’t imagine anyone using some mediocre or good but not great front end source components to pair with these Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps. It would have been a total waste and unwise move as these Naim Statement pre & amps are cost-no-object design gears.
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@gillatgh
I think the best or most musical HT preamp processors for two-channel music I have heard to date are the following : Meridian Reference 861 v8, Krell Evolution 707, Krell S1200, Classe SSP 800, Classe Sigma SSP, Bryston SP3 when paired with right associated gears & speakers, Theta Casablance lV with extreme DACs when paired with the right associated gears, speakers & cablings.
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Agree with that Rotel RMB-1585 five-channel amp. It's a steal at $3k new. Musically engaging especially for the money.
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