best fluid for vpi 16.5 cleaner non-vpi brand?

Another vote for the AIVS fluids. They're superior to VPI, Disc Doctor or old style RRL (now MoFi) in my own experience and that of several friends.

I haven't tried the Walker, but it's very similar in concept to AIVS so there's little reason to expect major differences. Prelude came out some time after the current AI product line began to acquire a well deserved following. If there's anything better about it (beyond a brand name) it's not apparent from the writeup on the Walker website. Has anyone compared directly?

Sonofjim,
I agree with Stiltskin. I've used DD and other surfactant based solutions. None of them comes close to a process like AIVS or Prelude that begins with an enzyme soak. The improvement is indeed shocking.

Scrubbing has little to do with it. I scrub only lightly. My records are far cleaner and quieter than they used to be and scrubbing harder doesn't make them more so (except perhaps for garage sale filth, which we rarely bother with).

The brush type is of some importance, but keeping the brushes clean is more so, especially the two used for a final double rinse with extremely high grade water.

Rushton,
The Talisman works as you described, but if you want a real shock then try a stronger (AC powered) demagnetiser. We have one that cost less than half the price of a Talisman and provides a much greater benefit. The effects seem to be permanent and it really does a job on tubes and cabling too. There's always more! :-)

Mike,

Most of the best new ideas and innovations in audio are discussed, beta tested and shared on forums like this one, not in the mainstream mags. I doubt the professional rags would waste their time, space or reputations reviewing an ugly, $79 utility tool sold to machine shops. It's much more impressive to review an $1800 Furutech DeMag, which does exactly the same thing with the addition of an auto-timing circuit, a shiny case and a selling price that brings the buyer some cache and the magazine some ad revenue.

Personally, I'm happy toggling the on/off switch and controlling the strength of the magnetic field manually, exactly as one does with the Walker Talisman. I can buy alot of records with that $1721 in savings, not to mention the amount I save by not subscribing to the usual mags. ;-)

You'll note the mags haven't reviewed the Magic Eraser either, and probably never will. Why review a stylus cleaner we all buy for pennies at the supermarket or Walmart. It does a notably better job than the $25-50 stylus cleaners sold by advertisers, so an honest appraisal would risk ad revenue.

BTW, I hope no one uses *any* demagnifier near their TT, preamp or any other component. Demagging should be done well away from your equipment. Anything else would be foolish.

FWIW, we demag each LP before it goes on the RCM. There's some chance demagging before wet cleaning might help loosen certain grunge and the strength of an AC powered demagnifier means the effects seem to be fairly permanent (as with the Furutech) so it doesn't really matter when or where you do it.

Doug

Sonofjim,

For spreading the enzyme mix almost any brush that doesn't contain natural fibers will work. I use an Audioquest carbon fiber brush, but the cheapie Last brushes or even a painting pad/brush both work *almost* as well. A DD/MoFi brush is probably overkill. You have to apply enough enzyme solution to prevent the LP drying out during the soak phase, and a DD/MoFi brush would absorb/waste alot of fluid.

DD/MoFi brushes are fine for steps after the enzyme solution but before the final rinse(s) with ultra pure water. I use my DD brushes for those steps. Install new pads to avoid contamination from your old fluids of course.

For the final water rinse(s) I much prefer Audioquest CF brushes. The tiny fibers help force the water deep into the grooves and they don't hold much fluid, so you don't waste much. Also, the fibers start clumping together when the brush begins to get dirty, an early warning sign that it's time to rinse the brush (with some of the ultra pure water, *nothing* else). The purity of the last rinse (or two) is very important so I use two CF brushes, always in the same order, and they're never used for anything else.

Others will have their own preferences. As long as there's some reasoning that makes sense to you it's your choice - as Rushton said about AI vs. Walker.