#edgewear, hi again !
In the end I went down a slightly different path and bought a SMARTtractor as I’m a big admirer of Acoustical Systems work in analogue.
I spent some time setting up my favourite FR7 (fc) and other “conventional” cartridges (as precisely as my ageing eyes and paesano fingers allowed) to the UNI DIN curve exclusive to that device, rationale being that this is specifically aimed at the 1960s Decca vinyl I tend to listen to (and hence the raison d’etre of this thread !)
The results were amazing - I ran all my newly aligned cartridges through a particularly nasty early Argo pressing of a choral service at Westminster Abbey. I suspect that even when totally new it would challenge any decent cartridge let alone the agricultural crap that no doubt ploughed through it for the 50+ years before I got hold of it...
Result: everything sounded good, every cartridge (from Denon 103r to Koetsu Jade d/c) produced texture where there had been glass and tamed all but the most extreme garbage caused by damaged vinyl (nothing on earth can surely repair vinyl ...).
All in all this was the solution I was seeking when I posed the title to this thread. Now I have realigned as above, all of the cartridges realigned now do a good job of playing early Argo worn vinyl. Some are better than others but that’s the same difference I get on pristine vinyl.
This may not be conforming to everybody’s way of doing things, but for me, in my system , it’s worked very well indeed...:)
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#edgewear... I tried my newly aligned London Reference this eve on some Monteverdi - a digital recording that just begs to irritate - and literally for the first time ever the great choral crescendos towards the end of the side actually held as music.
Of course these challenging records cause imprecisely aligned, or otherwise just poor, equipment to damage the grooves -which then becomes part of the listening experience even with good kit.
What I appear to get with the UNI DIN on that sort of damaged record is a clear differentiation between what was on the recording and the junk that’s been etched on it over the years.
i maybe haven’t expressed that very well, but what I’m feeling is that the cartridge is now tracking well , but you can’t repair what’s been done.
Before the whole lot was a haze of grain and noise .
So a big thumbs up to the UNI DIN from this Audiogonite ...:) |
#chakster #edgewear. tinkering (obviously) continues here in audio OCD land...:)
Essentially I’ve gone with your advice and set the FR66 s2p at 295mm and simply run the fixed headshell carts with that (which is hardly news given they can’t be adjusted).
I’m now going through the process of trying them out. So far the FR7fc sounds really really good. This far into the audio lunacy I didn’t expect to hear stuff on familiar records I hadn’t heard before, but that’s actually the case with the FR7 , not subtle things either.
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@noromance - with the SmartTractor I was able to set the PS distance on my Brinkmann Balance to the recommended 230mm (which obviously can be done on other alignment tools).
This is seemingly relevant to the cartridges with fixed headshells as one assumes that FR (aka IKEDA) figured that this would work with their own tonearms and their own fixed headshell cartridges (eg FR7 series) as well as the popular SPU’s.
On those cartridges I’ve gotten a significant improvement - as big as hearing musical instruments /separate voices for the first time on recordings I’ve been listening to with a decent system for 10+ years...
Definitely some vinyl is just so worn (or damaged from previous owners/my own misaligned styli) that it still sounds like worn vinyl, however the overall improvement is great and you can at least differentiate between the sound that was recorded and that which was caused by possibly years of misuse.
On cartridges with adjustable headshells the PS is not relevant (so I understand) because you can obviously adjust the stylus position onto the various hotly debated null points.
For what it’s worth and simply following what Michael Fremer does, I set all of my cartridges to Loefgren B, except for the (Decca) London Reference and Shure V15 111 which I set to UNI-DIN.
To be honest I’ve not done much listening with all of them yet, but on a quick run through all of them were considerably better than they had been (I previously set them up on a Brinkmann protractor) with similar gains to that obtained on the fixed headshell cartridges.
The reason I’ve not used them much is that the FR7 fc (with the 230mm PS) is so good all round that I just left it in situ.
So in conclusion the re-setting of PS for the fixed headshell cartridges and the use of SmartTractor for setting null points on the others has made a really big improvement to the overall sound in my system.
No doubt how I had things before was probably crap, and of course whatever the tools, if (as in my case) you have old git deteriorating vision and fingers like steel claws, then there’s a limit to how accurate you are going to get in a world of nano particles, but my ears can at least hear an improvement !
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Thanks for all that.
I’ll try my existing cartridges in a comparison and report back ... |
Early Argo label with grooved oval logo is awesome. Digital doesn’t do it for me (sadly...)
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I do already have an Audiodesk ultrasonic cleaner - helps greatly. |
In a completely non-scientific and quite possibly unfair way I had a quick run through some of my cartridges using a prime example of good but worn early 60s Argo vinyl.
Best sounding is Koetsu Jade d/c. I use a smidgeon under 2.0 gm, mounted in Arche headshell with FR66. Basically this combo shrugged off any age related vinyl issues and sounded amazing with the very well engineered early recordings - from an era when Decca engineers knew exactly how to mike a live venue like a chapel choir and the records weren’t made by bean counting accountants and management consultants.
Next best was a collection of Fidelity Research 7s (FR7fc, FR7fz and an FR7f “PW1”). All of these also shrugged off the age and were all excellent - the Koetsu just being a step up in overall dynamism and sheer “reality”. With the Koetsu the image depth and sense of being at the venue were bonkers.
Least impressively were SPU classic (elyptical stylus) and Synergy . The Synergy was better than the Classic on these old records. I mentioned the test being unfair and it needs to be borne in mind that while the Koetsu is properly aligned in my system, none of the FRs or SPUs are - I can’t adjust overhang or azimuth in their integrated headshell and haven’t a clue how to adjust the FR66 in my Brinkman Balance tt. As a consequence all of the FRs and SPU’s are sitting outside of the ideal point on my Brinkmanm alignment gauge (just short of it).
But there’s my findings :)
I haven’t tried my London Reference or Shure V15 111 yet ...
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@solypsa, thanks for comment ! Yes it’s got the b60 mount which lifts/ lowers the base of the arm. Even I can adjust that, not the p2s I fear ! |
I’ve just read the Balance manual which says:
”The Balance tonearm base consists of a pod and a top plate.
The pod fits in the hole of the plinth. It can be rotated 360° degrees to adjust the correct pivot-to- spindle distance for the tonearm and, when used with the Brinkmann Stylus Protractor, facilitates foolproof, highly accurate cartridge alignment.”
Sounds pretty terrifying |
@edgewear, thanks: the FR66 was installed in my Brinkman by the dealer, so I don’t know what P2S distance it has. Most definitely though all of the FR7s and SPUs don’t quite reach the single “bullseye” point on the Brinkman alignment protractor.
Without wishing to turn this into a huge technical debate or bringing Audiogon to the brink of nuclear war, if the distance is not correct and the stylus tip is slightly short of said point what sonic effects will that have in broad terms ?
I guess it ought to be capable of adjustment , but the Brinkman has a bespoke arm pod and it’s all pretty solid looking !
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@chakster,
hi yes I’ve got a Shure V15 111 with a new hyper elliptical stylus from JICO (not SAS type)...
It’s a surprisingly nice cartridge- I’ve yet to try it properly with the old vinyl
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@chakster many thanks for that - so is this how I get the alignment right for the FR7/SPU cartridges?
1. Buy Dr Feickert Protractor.
2. Choose Stevenson alignment point.
3. Adjust FR66 with FR7 attached so that it aligns on the Steveson points.
If I use the Brinkman alignment tool (based on Baerwald alignment I gather) and follow the above the FR7/ SPU won’t be correctly aligned - is that right ?
Many thanks
Howard
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@edgewear thanks for that !
I spoke with dealer and figured out how to move the arm on the Brinkman so hopefully will manage it in the next day or so.
Not being technically savvy I don’t profess to understand any of the physics at all...
The Brinkman alignment tool is based on the Dennesen alignment (?) All you do is fit it over the spindle, get one end lined up over the middle of the tonearm pivot and when all that’s in place you adjust the cartridge so that the tip of the stylus is in a small hole on the Brinman alignment tool. On that basis presumably the s2p doesn’t matter so much as long as you can adjust the cartridge in the headshell so it lines up on the small hole on the tool ?
Where I guess it might matter is if you can’t adjust the cartridge (like in SPU /FR7) ?
Again I’ve no idea what I’m actually talking about here, but if I’m able to adjust the FR 66 on the Brinkman that the FR7 is aligned properly on the Brinkman alignment tool, then presumably that’s job done ? At that point does that also mean that the p2s distance will be “correct” ? if the answer to that is ”no” then it begs the question whether something like the Brinkman alignment tool actually aligns cartridges properly or whether ( if it does) whether the s2p is a critical factor ?
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@chakster thanks again.
Apologies for what might be dumb questions but my technical understanding hovers around zero on a good day ...
Supposing you could adjust either the FR7 or SPU in the headshell like most other cartridges. Would it then also be the case that only the Steveson alignment worked with them ?
What I don’t quite understand is this : a stylus, whether it’s in a Lyra, Koetsu or SPU (apart from having different shapes/lengths) does the same thing, ie sits in a vinyl groove and moves across from the outside to the inside of a record. It’s a mechanical operation.
If the stylus in (say) a Koetsu can work fine in (say) the Baerwald alignment on an FR66 then why would the physical mechanics that enable the Koetsu stylus to get across the record well not also allow the stylus on an SPU to do the same (assuming the tonearm is adjusted so that the SPU is aligned in the same way as the Koetsu).
Best regards
Howard
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@Edgewear, many thanks !
I’ve figured out how to move the FR66 tonearm in the Balance, so I obviously couldn’t resist having a play around.
With the FR7fc in the arm I moved the arm pod around until the tip of the FR7 stylus was lined up in the single “bullseye” on the Brinkman alignment tool. Previously the FR7 and SPU carts I own all sat a few millimetres short of this point, whereas all my non-fixed headshell carts had been adjusted to this alignment.
In other words the FR7 was now aligned the same as all my other non-fixed headshell carts (for the first time since I owned them).
To cut to the chase the improvement in sound quality was quite astonishing, way beyond any confirmation bias or other mystical bs to which I am prone.
What I still struggle to understand is why two cartridges, aligned identically, don’t obey the same laws of physics because they are made by different manufacturers. I appreciate that an SPU comes in a fixed headshell so you need to adjust the arm to align it, but once you have done so then it is no more or less aligned than a cartridge that can be aligned in the headshell itself (because it’s not a fixed design).
Without understanding the science one iota I do know that people debate which alignment method is best and I also appreciate that Ikeda seemingly used the Steveson alignment when designing the FR tonearms but does that mean that any cartridge mounted in an FR tonearm is misaligned unless it’s been set up to Steveson alignment ?
Again, I fully understand that ultimately one of these alignment “philosophies” might be better than the others, however isn’t that something that would then apply to all arms and all cartridges given that they are presumably based upon the laws of physics rather than something in the actual tonearms and cartridges themselves ?
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@edgewear, hi again, I measured the s2p of the FR66 in the “new” position (ie the position of the tonearm whereby the stylus tip of an FR7fc sits in the “bullseye’ of the Brinkman alignment tool) - and its 295 mm (!).
Most definitely the FR7fc and SPU synergy both sound much (extremely) better in this position, in fact I venture to say better than anything I’ve heard in my system to date (including the cartridges that were each aligned in their headshells such as Koetsu Jade/Vermillion and London Reference (Decca).
I’m going to follow @Chaksters good advice about the Feicker protractor in any event but this is getting quite interesting as I wasn’t expecting such a jump in performance with the fixed headshell carts.
One issue I may face is that the other cartridges will all need to be moved back in their headshells and I’m a bit concerned as to whether there will be enough adjustment possible there as might be needed. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it ! |
@chakster , thanks again.
i understand the point that fixed headshell cartridges can’t be adjusted for zenith (or azimuth). so how is this solved on the Feickert alignment tool ?
cheers
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