Good catch, Matt -- thanks! I'll scratch the DL 103 off my list, as well as the AT-F2. Among the others are there any opinions on sound quality?
Best Budget Phono Cartridge?
After upgrading my system for CDs and SACDs recently, I pulled my old turntable out of storage to see how it would stack up. It sounded pretty sick, and my best guess is that an old (very old) Stanton 681EEE is the culprit. I don’t want to spend a lot of money on this experiment, but if I can find a decent cartridge in the $100-250 range it would be fun to see how my old vinyl compares. I’m looking at the following new or NOS cartridges:
Audio Technica AT7V MM or AT-F2 MC
Denon DL 103 MC or DL 110 MC;
Grado Prestige Gold1
Sumiko Pearl MM
Ortofon 2M Blue MM
Shure M97xE
Would any of you like to weigh in on this list, or add a favorite of your own? I’ll be inputing to a Parasound New Classic 2100 preamp.
Showing 20 responses by cheeg
@viridian I don’t know the mass of the tonearm, but the turntable is an old Aiwa AP-B21 unit, with the following specs: Platter: aluminium alloy die cast Drive system: belt drive, auto return Motor: 4-pole synchronous Speeds: 33 and 45rpm Wow and flutter: 0.05% Rumble: 65dB Tonearm: J-shaped static balance type Effective length: 220mm Cartridge weight range: 4 to 9g Arm lifter: oil damped Overhang: 15mm Shell weight: 7g Cartridge: VM dual magnet type Dimensions: 440 x 135 x 355mm Weight: 5.9kg |
Thanks viridian -- I had heard that replacement styluses for the 681 were not worth it, as the body doesn't age well; have you heard otherwise? Regarding the VTA, you are right that the turntable doesn't have an adjustment, but I thought that could be done either at the cartridge head or platten. Is that a bad idea? Also, thanks for the Nagaoka 110 suggestion; I'll look into it. |
What a great thread on Stanton 681 replacements -- thanks viridian! One of my concerns (in addition to that body ageing thing, with which I totally relate), was that the JICO replacement stylus is $167, and I didn't see any point in spending that much $ to resuscitate a cartridge body that may not be in such good shape. But if the author of the thread is right, it sounds like the Pfanstiehl 4822-DEE-P is a decent replacement stylus, at only $29 -- that's a no-brainer! At worst, I can use it as a backup set of "rock skis", for my rutted records that would otherwise tear up good needles. Thanks, too, for the advice on rough VTR adjustment; if the Phanstiehl doesn't work out, I may yet need to try it. Or maybe just get a better arm... |
@williewonka -- thanks for your post on the Denon 103 -- it does sound like a strong contender in the budget cartridge category. I initially decided against it because one of the Agon replies said my Parasound 2100 would not provide enough output from its phono stage to work well with the 103's 0.3mV output. But if I get inspired, I might look into how much it takes to set one up a decent SUT... |
@viridian -- thanks for following up! After you and cleeds got into it, I decided to bow out and let tempers cool; sounds like the two of managed to find some common ground. Soooo... it's been an interesting jaunt; I ordered the 440MLB, despite your (legitimate) concerns about VTA, since it's been discontinued and they may not be around much longer. I also ordered a Pfanstiehl 4822-DEE-P stylus for my Stanton cartridge, assuming that would be the backup for my 440 on chewed-up records. I mounted the 440 last weekend, and have been fiddling with it ever since. It sounds good, but not great; I probably still don't have the ideal geometry, but it's pretty close, and the sound is not quite there. Mids are very nice, but the cymbals don't quite come alive, and the bass is a tad weak. I've tried different VTFs, from 1.25 to 2.0, and played with the VTA (currently it's slightly "positive", as Galen would say (head lower than tail)*, but it varies from neutral to positive with different record thicknesses). I've positioned the cartridge in the head with a mirrored alignment gauge, and listened to different records to be sure it's not just bad vinyl. I've tried different anti-skate settings, from zero to the VTF settings, but I suspect the anti-skating dial is pretty inaccurate. What I've concluded, over the past week, is that I'm wasting my time trying to get the cartridge to sound good on this TT; it's old, noisy, and the arm is probably not that good, even if I have the cartridge perfectly adjusted. I'm not ready to buy a new TT (or even a good used one), so I will live with my Stanton/Pfanstiehl combo until I can get a TT that's worth a better cartridge. Thanks for your interest and for all the good advice; I did learn something from the interchange on VTA definitions, so the whole thing was a pretty positive experience for me. Happy listening! Casey * cleeds, please don't react; I know that's not the real meaning of the VTA, but it's a convenient metaphor, and besides, I don't have accurate enough equipment to measure the real VTA, or the SRA, for that matter). |
@viridian -- thanks for your opinions, as always. I have a few follow up questions: - I'm tempted to return the AT440, since a) the sound is not blowing me away, and b) it will probably be a year before I'm ready to buy a new TT. Your post makes it sound like I should just stay with it until it's broken in, and hope that I like it better then; wouldn't I be better off returning it, and getting an equivalent or better cart with my new TT? - Regarding the tone arm mass, I'm trying to get some simple "rules of thumb" to guide my next purchase. Your post made it sound like higher mass is generally better than low -- is that right, or does it vary with the arm/cartridge combination? I've also heard that the traditional "S" shaped arm is now out of favor; do you agree, and if so, do you know why it's not as good as a straight one? Is a single bend in an arm better than an S, or should I just look for a straight arm? Inquiring minds want to know... Thanks again, Casey |
@viridian -- thanks again for your response; I had forgotten about your recommendation of the MP110, and will probably try that if the Stanton replacement stylus doesn't sound good. The reviewer at the link you sent was certainly very enthusiastic about it, and UNenthusiastic about the 440MLb - I thought unfairly so. It made me wonder if he has any interest in pushing Nagaoka sales. You mentioned a used Sl1200 as a good bet for a moderately priced turntable -- do you have any thoughts on the Sl1200 "look alikes", such as the AT1240 or Pioneer PLX-500, which can be had new for less $ than the used Technics? |
Update for anyone still interested: the Stanton/Pfanstiehl combination is very disappointing. My best guess is that the rubber in the cartridge has hardened, but it's possible the stylus is just not that good. Either way, I think I'll wait until I can afford a decent new (or used) TT/cartridge, so I'm going to give up on this experiment for a while. Thanks to all of you for your help; it's been a good learning experience! |
@schubert — Is your comment based on personal experience or rumor? I bought the Pfanstiel l based on the comments at the following forum, which were generally favorable: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/stanton-681eee-nos-or-replacement-stylus.788696/ |
@schubert -- that got a good laugh at my end! I'm inclined to take your word over the opinions in that post. It sounds like you think the problem might be with the needle, not the cartridge -- do you have any suggestions? Is it worth trying to get a refund, or should I just write it off? I don't want to spend $100 on a JICO and then find that the problem was with the cartridge all along; is there a better alternative, or should I just give up on the Stanton and buy a new cartridge? |
@schubert — sounds like good advice. @viridian recommended that one too, and it’s looking like the only logical choice. If I were truly sane, I probably wouldn’t have started down this rabbit hole, but as long as I’m here, I may as well try to find the best sound that fits in my budget. Thanks for your help! |
@viridian and @schubert -- I just wanted to follow up on your posts, as I've now had a chance to try several variations of equipment, and ended up with something I like. When we last left off, I had tried the Pfanstiehl replacement stylus for my Stanton 681 cartridge in the AIWA TT, and was very disappointed, so I ordered a Nagaoka 110. But before it arrived, I saw a Technics SL-D2 locally on Craigslist for $150, and decided it was worth that much to be sure my TT wasn't the problem. Long story short, it was in excellent condition, so I grabbed it; the sound of my records improved 1000% immediately, using only the AT-95 cartridge that came with it! When the Nagaoka arrived I replaced the AT-95 with that, and have not changed since. Marvelous cartridge for the money! Thanks for the Nagaoka recommendation; I haven't tried different VTAs, since there is no arm height adjustment on the SL-D2, but I really don't need to; the sound is very good right now, so I've decided to stop worrying about the setup and just start enjoying the music. I went to a Vandersteen dealer yesterday and listened to some absurdly expensive TT/stylus combinations with the Vandy 2, Treo and 7, and came away thinking I'm pretty happy with what I've got! I'm sure I'll upgrade at some point, but for now I'm a happy camper. Thanks again for your help! |