Best and Worst customer service?

Pete, from your previous post I see you've also had a bad experience with Martin Logan. I presume there are some people who have had positive experiences with ML (even though I don't see any positive comments about ML mentioned in this thread). But I wonder how many dissatisfied ML customers and "woulda been customers" are out there. I agree ML makes some nice speakers, and that's why I bought some (despite their extremely finicky nature and B+ build quality). However, like you, I can't understand the company's attitude. They exhibit a kind of arogance (which is also manifest in their refusal to allow ML stuff to be offered by dealers at reasonable sale prices). The ONLY person I spoke with at ML who seemed like a real person was Jim Power. He understood my situation and told me I could hire a shipper to pick up my speakers at the Kansas factory. After I made a bunch of long distance phone calls and finally found someone who could pick up the speakers and deliver them to me in Wyoming, I called ML back to get the speaker box sizes for the shipper. Jim wasn't around, so I was transferred to David Penrod who promptly (and rudely) told me I had wasted my time. Of course, ML's Dennis Chern was polite to me at first, but only until I reinstated my order and accepted delivery of the speakers. Then he woundn't give me the time of day. In any case, I wonder if Martin Logan's arogance somehow creates a false mystique that leads people to become a ML customer despite being treated like crap by the company -- maybe like dating a fashion model despite the bad personality or visiting Paris knowing you will be thoroughly fracked by the locals for not speaking proper French. Whatever the reason, I've learned my lesson. There are many other audio companies making great gear who actually CARE about their customers, and I will be cautious to only do business with such companies in the future. This thread contains some very useful information about the good, the bad, and the ugly, and I for one will be using it to help guide my future purchasing decisions. Thanks ElDragon for starting this thread, and thanks to everyone else for posting your experiences here -- I hope the list keeps growing. After reading through all the foregoing comments, I now wonder if it would be worthwhile to develop some sort of system here on Audiogon for rating the customer service of different companies AGers deal with -- perhaps something like the ebay user feedback system? I'm sure every company has a bad day now and then, which might explain a few of the negative experiences posted above. Though if enough people say a particular company has treated them poorly (e.g., ML, UPS), this would provide a more reliable indication of which companies to stay away from. Food for thought. By the way, does anyone have any tips to keep long-winded pedants like me from rambling on and on and.... Don

MARTIN LOGAN = WORST. I have had a very frustrating experience with Martin Logan that really calls into question that company's integrity and commitment to its customers. A while back I bought a pair of ML ReQuests together with a pair of Aerius i's. I ordered them from my dealer in Florida (where I used to live) with whom I've done business since the 1970's. I thought the ReQuests with oak trim were the most beautiful speakers I had ever seen, and thought they sounded pretty good to boot. So I cleared out my savings and bought the set. For some reason, ML did not ship the speakers from the factory for more than a month. To save time and money, and to reduce the risk of shipping damage, MY DEALER advised me to call ML and ask them to ship the speakers directly from ML's Kansas factory to my home in Wyoming. I called Martin Logan, but ML (David Penrod) refused to ship to me directly, even at my expense. Thus, the speakers would have to be shipped all the way from Kansas to my dealer down in south Florida then all the way back west to Wyoming (no doubt right past the ML factory a couple of weeks later). ML said this was necessary to ensure there would be no "bad blood" with its dealers. ML never did give me a compelling reason for this irrational policy; my ML dealer was actually the one who suggested the "direct shipping" option, and Dunlavy and other major audio companies have shipped their products to me directly without my even having to ask. In any case, I thought this ML policy was wasteful and ridiculous, so I canceled my order. A few days later, ML's US Sales Manager, Dennis Chern, called me and said he was instructed "to do everything possible" to resolve my concerns so I would buy the ML speakers. He then committed to have ML pay the shipping charge if I would reinstate my order. On his promise to pay the shipping charge, I agreed to reinstate my order. Nearly two months later the speakers finally arrived from ML, via Florida, along with a $350 shipping charge. Still no check from ML, and Mr. Chern was not available by phone when the speakers were delivered. So I accepted delivery trusting ML would reimburse me later. Weeks passed, but still no word from ML. When I contacted Mr. Chern and asked him about the shipping charge, he faxed me a terse and impolite letter saying Martin Logan "was not in a position to make a decision on reimbursement of shipping costs." His letter then said I should try to get my dealer to pay for the shipping cost. Talk about creating bad blood with the dealer (not to mention the customer)! My dealer had no knowledge of ML's promise to pay the shipping charge, nor was my dealer responsible for the shipping problems that led me to cancel my order in the first place. Moreover, when I agreed to reinstate my order, Mr. Chern assured me that my dealer would not be penalized in any way for the shipping charge. Hoping to resolve this problem informally, I wrote a cordial letter to Gayle Sanders, President of Martin Logan, explaining the situation and asking him to honor the promise to pay the shipping charge. Mr. Sanders has never replied. The bottom line: I have not been able to enjoy my Martin Logan speakers because whenever I look at them, I feel cheated and betrayed by Martin Logan. I spent a lot of time and money tweaking my system trying to make the MLs sound "right," but I know now these speakers will never be right. They are tainted. And it looks like I will have to spend more time and money hiring an attorney and going to court just to compel ML to abide by its commitment to pay a shipping charge it offered to pay in exchange for my business. This might get me back what I am rightfully owed but there is nothing to make up for the frustration and loss of musical enjoyment I have experienced because of the way Martin Logan has treated me. If a company won't stand behind its word, I doubt it will stand behind its products. I will never buy another Martin Logan product. If you have read any of my other posts here on Audiogon, I think you'll see that I am not one who is prone to scandalaous accusations or muck raking. This is an honest account of my experience with ML, and since ElDragon started this thead by asking what companies have the worst customer service, I thought it was approriate to explain my experience with ML here. I have never had a more unsatisfactory experience with an audio company. As for the BEST customer service, I have heard TALON Audio is unbelievably good. (FYI, I'm not affiliated with Talon or any of its dealers.) Talon offers a 5-year transferable warranty on their speakers, and I know of two cases where Talon actually flew techicians out for "house calls" to service Talon speakers in their customers' listening rooms. Now that's standing behind your product! Don

I find all these posts to be insightful. As I remarked above, every company probably has a bad day now and then, but if enough people say a particular company has treated them poorly, this would provide a more reliable indication of which companies to stay away from. Therefore, I still wonder if it would be worthwhile to start some sort of system here on Audiogon where AGers could rate the customer service of the companies we all deal with (like user feedback).

Abstract7 - I do not "feel cheated" as a result of ML's drop shipping policy. I WAS CHEATED by Martin Logan's failure to pay for a $350 shipping charge Martin Logan promised it would pay if I agreed to reinstate my order for ML speakers. Martin Logan's failure to honor its commitment to pay this charge not only constitutes "poor customer service," it is unlawful.

In January I sent Gayle Sanders, President of Martin Logan, a cordial letter explaining the situation and asking him to honor ML's promise to pay the $350 shipping charge. Mr. Sanders has taken no action to correct ML's error; in fact, he has not even bothered to respond to my letter. Is this any way to treat a customer who has bought 2 pairs of ML speakers? I would be glad to email you a copy of my letter to Mr. Sanders (or maybe I'll post it here). If you read my letter, I think you'll see that I have been treated very unfairly by Martin Logan. I think you'll also see that, despite how poorly I've been treated, I have remained reasonable. I will also gladly fax you my original order cancellation letter and the correspondence from Mr. Chern (ML's Sales Manager) stating that ML would pay the shipping charge.

In response to some of your other remarks, Abstract7, it is worth noting that my dealer is the one who -- after ML had delayed shipping of the speakers I ordered -- suggested that I ask ML to drop ship to me to avoid further delays. This wasan't an attempt to do "mail order" as you suggest.

In any case, your post seems to be an attempt to discredit my experience and justify ML's conduct. I have no doubt ML treats some of its customers fairly, and I'm glad you were one of these. However, my experience with Martin Logan is ALL negative. Your limited experience cannot undo this, nor does it justify or excuse the shameful way I have been treated by Martin Logan. Don

Thanks for the advice and understanding Abstract7. As I mentioned in a previous post, I think it is important for people to post positive and negative experiences; only by considering a large sample of different experiences can one get a sense of whether or not a company is likely to treat its customers fairly. For this reason, your post is valuable too.

I did carefully consider asking my dealer to help address Martin Logan's failure to pay the shipping cost it promised to pay. However, I decided not to bring my dealer into this matter for 3 reasons: (1) my dealer was not responsible for the shipping delay that led me to cancel my order, (2) my dealer had no knowledge of ML's commitment to pay the shipping charge in exchange for my agreement to reinstate my order, and (3) it would be wrong to burden my dealer (with whom I've done business since the mid 70's) with a problem that ML is solely responsible for creating and resolving. I'll also add that after my speakers were delivered and I inquired with Martin Logan about its failure to reimburse me for the shipping charge, ML told me to see if I could get the dealer to pay the $350 shipping charge. So not only did ML not value me as a customer, ML apparently didn't really care about pissing off its dealer either.

As for ML's policy on the drop shipping issue, I think it is important to keep in mind direct/drop "shipping" to a customer is not the same as direct "selling" to customers. If a dealer suggests direct shipping, what possible harm could that cause? It's not like the manufacturer is competing with any other dealer by shipping to a customer after one dealer secures a sale from the customer. As I explained in a post above, other companies have drop shipped their gear to me (at their suggestion, not mine), so ML's unspoken policy on the "drop shipping" issue is by no means an industry norm. Also, my situation was highly unusual, and my ML dealer was the one who suggested the drop shipping option to prevent further delay. When companies like Martin Logan adhere to inflexible rules to the point where they can can no longer take into account such unusual circumstances, they lose contact with the customers.

In any case, my complaint isn't about Martin Logan's drop shipping policy (which I still think is silly and wasteful). My complaint is with Martin Logan's failure to honor its promise. I have now had to retain a lawyer to file suit against Martin Logan to recover the $350 shipping charge ML promised to pay. I'll leave my dealer out of it and focus on those responsible. Don