Berkeley Alpha Reference run direct

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Other than price, have you considered using an Ayre KX-R Twenty with your MX-R Twenty amps instead of the ARC Ref 6?

Yes, I have considered trying a KX-R Twenty. Once again, Has anyone heard that combination with the BAR, and was it an improvement over direct?

I always prefer a preamp in my system. I had the Berkeley Ref DAC in my system and it was one of the, if not the, best dacs used direct to my amps. I still love what a preamp does. With a preamp, you might get a slight loss of detail but gain musicality, depth, width and overall added sweetness to less than stellar recordings. I have since moved on from the Berkely Ref DAC and don't miss it.

I have Ayre MX-R Twenty monos and agree that they are outstanding. I am in the process of trying to get the KX-R Twenty to go with them. I am also considering an ARC Ref 10. I have the Ref 6 and it's a little too much for my taste. It's an outstanding preamp and I know why people love it, but it's not for me. I love a slightly slightly softer/sweeter sound.

We all hear differently. Let me say it this way, DACs direct to amp have more "detail" but I find it more fatiguing in the long run. Digital attenuation reduces the volume by throwing bits of data away. That's why some don't like it. For me, the better the preamp, more gets through but still retains the musicality that I love. 

A dac direct to amp seems impressive at first, but too much detail takes the enjoyment out of it.

Have you compared a preamp to no preamp in your system? If you love no preamp, great, you've saved some money. I've compared it many times with several dacs and many preamps and I always prefer the preamp. 

I think the Ref 6 is an outstanding preamp for the money. It is extremely transparent which can be both a blessing and a curse. On great recordings, there are no issues. On lesser recordings, the treble and midrange can sound a bit coarse to my ear. I also found the soundstage to be a little forward for my taste, like sitting in the third row at a concert hall. It also has a very punchy/ballsy sound, almost like it's on steroids. On some music it's an advantage, but on other music, it can be a bit too much of a good thing.

This is ONLY my opinion, you need to listen for yourself.

Joeinid - In your opinion with the AR Ref 6, is the preamp super highly resolving, and thus makes imperfect recordings sound just that way, imperfect? Or is it distorting the signal somehow, resulting in the forward soundstage and punchy on-steroids feel?

The Ref 6 is NOT distorting the signal. It just doesn't let a bad recording sound good. It lets it all through, good or bad.

I have not heard the ARC Ref 5SE recently, but it's more forgiving and probably not as resolving compared to the Ref 6 (check the thread in the amp and preamp section).

I am personally thinking about the Ref 10 or KX-R Twenty to go with my MX-R Twenty amps.

Not sure if better, but i would be very curious what a tube preamp would do. Im in the minority who find the BAD a bit cool, so if i had deep pockets and endless time it want to try a very good tube pre to warm and maybe sprinkle a little magic. ;)

Like I said though, few would agree with me.

Erik, I agree with you.