Sean, you are correct, Garfish is referring to true double bi-wire rather than shotgun I beleive, as opposed to a single bi wire configuration. For example if you used kimber8(one strand on each side) and seperated out some of the conductors for the "high" and "low" in a single pair(this would require being careful to get this right(Audio Quest and other companies do this), that could or would be single or internal bi-wire. True bi-wire would have two runs per side and shot gun would have 4 per side on a bi-wire, both the black and blue in Kimber (8tc)would be grouped together and not seperated as + or -. shot gun can also refer to a non bi-wire configuration and use two seperate runs per side. Dont confuse this with MIT shotgun which is different. Clear as mud? |
Buckingham, to answer your question, go to the Audioquest web site, and read their explanation of bi-wireing. This is is one of the best explanations I have seen.(you may have to search around since the site is a bit strange at first)They don't mention specifically shotgun but they will talk about the benifit of the added conductors and the seperation of electrical fields.It will take a bit of interpretation to apply this to "shotgun". I first tried "shotgun" before I new it was "shotgun" back in about 1981 with my then, Mogami speaker cable. It improved the sound in just about every way(it sounded more lifelike) with that wire. I can't say it will happen with every cable out there. |
Following on Sean's ideas, if you have bi-wire speakers you could try just the "shotgun" set up for the lows and "norman" bi-wire on the top to reduce the effects that he and both Garfish suggest in the soffened high end but perhaps with the greater bass controll that the shotgun "could" provide with some cables. Again to use Kimber 8TC as an example(it works well to illustrate it since it has no real outer jacket to hide what is going on inside,black normaly used for the - side and blue used for the + side) it would be two runs(one for+ and one for -, both black and blue combined, ) to the bass and a single run to the top on each side(with the black and blue wires seperated as normal) for a total of 6 runs of cable. |
Jfaker, I don't think we have cleared up what shotgun is yet, Sean said it best, but I will try to sumerize. A "standard" speaker set up uses a single + connection and a - connection for each channel. This is the same for a single"standard" amp configuration. Lets use zip cord for our model. In the standard connection you conect one side of the zip cord to + and one side to - on both ends. A "bi-wire" speaker has two + connections and two - connections on each speaker. To bi-wire with our zip cord we hook up two runs of it, connecting both runs to one + terminal on the amp end and both runs to one - terminal of the amp. On the speaker end we connect the two + ends to the two + terminals on the speaker and the two - ends to the two - treminals. Here is the "Shotgun" set up. Forget bi-wire for a while since you can "shotgun" with a bi-wire or a "standard" speaker connection. Sean already said this but I will try again with the zip cord. Zip cord has two wires,one ment for the + signal and one ment for the - signal. To "shotgun" all you do is twist the + and - together to make one conductor, now take another run of Zip and do the same thing. Now you have two seperate zip cords, that used to have two conductors each. They now have one each.Use one as + and one as -. Connect one of the twisted together zip cords to the + and one of the twisted together zip cords to the - terminals on the speaker. Do the same on your amp. This will hook up one standard speaker. Do the same for the other side and you now have "shotgun". It is simply using a seperate 2 conductor zip cable for each connection, as Sean said it doubles the gauge of the wire. Again "zip" cord is only used in this context as a tool to explain what "shotgun" is, not as an endorsement of zip cord. I still think people are confusing standard "bi-wire" with "shotgun". |
I think Audiogon needs a "chalk board" feature so right brain "artist" types like my self who can't explain anything clearly can draw a diagram instead. |
Buckingham,I think it will still confuse some out there. Looks like what you are doing IS (standard 2 terminal) shotgun. All conductors in each wire(which were intended to be used as +And-) are now grouped together as + in one cable and - in the second, for each side. Now throw bi-wire shotgun in there and I think people will still be unclear on it. I think that some of the confusion comes from the manufacturers using their own terms. Terms like "single bi-wire" and "internal bi-wire" which are the same thing in my understanding. I still think AudioQuest does a good job of illustrating and explaining the bi wire thing, along with some good discussion of electrical properties, with some AQ propaganda thrown in. They think solid round conductors are best,Nordost says flat, Analysis says oval, I think they are all sort of right, maybe, perhaps? I want a solid stranded braided round flat oval networked teflon foam air liquid insulated silver copper internal single bi-wire shotgun cable. Not too much to ask? My head hurts now. |
Garfish, you are confusing shotgun with internal bi-wire, read Sean's last post or my zip cord analogy. You are correct about true bi-wire though. Go to the AudioQuest site and read their bi-wire explanation it will cover different possibilities. I don't mean to be contrary Craig, it's just that I thought we finnaly cleared it up. |
Craig, to shotgun you would need two "true bi-wire" sets of speaker cables. 8 seperate cables. It's just one of those hard to explain things. Enjoy the cung pow chicken. Your fortune cookie says "you will see it all very clearly soon"! ? |
No,No,No!
Oh well count me out of this one, ya'll have fun!
(Maxgain leaves muttering to himself) |
Costrosk,No offense intended, It's too bad you feel that way though. I just think you might miss out on something , not to say that you need to spend 10K on speaker wire, it's just that all wires seem to sound different and it is a very complex science and not entirely hype.
We do need to define our terms though. I just find it amazing that so many people here do not know what bi-wireing is, let alone "shotgun". How can we even discuss this if we all have a "different deffinition". What if I had my own term for RCA connectors, or if I used my own term for speakers. I am only trying to say that our communications will break down worse than they normaly do here. I always get frustrated posting. I refrained from doing so for a month or so. I think I need another month off. I wish I knew how to post in Russian, it would be just as heplful. Garfish is right about true bi-wireing, and he quotes a reputable source. I say "no' only cuz you still don't have it right. Just trying to help! |
Costrosk,you and I do have a different idea of waht "shogun" means. My only real point of contention with what you are saying is that you can in fact"true" bi-wire with a single stereo amp. All of the speaker manufacturers that I am aware of that put bi-wire connectors on their speakers(I have had speakers set up like this nearly 20 years)refer to bi-wireing as two sets of speaker wire connected in paralel(both sets of wire running from the same amp outputs) from each output on a stereo amp to the four terminals on the back of each speaker. I.E. two connections on the amp end + and - for each channel(the + and - conductors are connected together at the amp), and four connections on the speaker end 2+ and 2- for each speaker. You are correct that to bi-amp you need the same speaker wire set up(two stereo sets) they are just not run in paralel from one amp but run from two seperate amps.
From the Vandersteen manual"Bi-wiring provides many of the sonic attributes of bi-amping without the cost and complexity of two stereo amps. Bi-wiring is recommended for all systems using a receiver, integrated amplifier or single stereo amplifier. Four identical runs of equal length speaker cables are required.(two per speaker)"and"Connect both speaker cables to your amplifier. If possible, use only one spade lug to connect both wires to each terminal as shown in the enlarged view of an amp connection." sorry we will have to do without the "as shown" part. Das Vedanya! |
