Benefit of a Newer (Used) DAC - "Bang for the Buck?"

I'm not really trying to sell that dac, just noting that you may or may not find anything new an upgrade. Defintely don't assume it'll sound better just because it's based on a new chip.

I'd look for a good power supply first if I were guessing about outcome.

Tough to say.  I use a (new) R2R dac with an obsolete Analog Designs AD1865N-K chip.  I've found this unit (an Audio Mirror Tubadour IIIse) to outperform a number of modern dacs including things like the PS Audio Directstream and Matrix X-Sabre Pro.  The latter is one of the best measuring dacs currently in production.  All depends on your ears and system.

As always, just look for items you can home demo, or buy used so that you don't take a loss upon resale. 

If you're set on buying a new dac, I'd recommend trying to hear as many contenders as possible in your own system.  Especially with the pandemic, many places are offering no question returns, and getting 4 or 5 different dacs in the system at once can be an illuminating experience. You can do a bit of blind testing and it'll show you how much (or how little) the different designs matter in your system and to your ears.  Plus you'll learn a bit about what reviewers hear things as you do and who to trust for any future purchase recommendations. No shame in blatantly copying those who have ears that hear the same way yours do.   

If you're looking for brands, I liked the iFi iDSD pro dac that I tried.  Might be worth demoing one of their models that's in your price range.  Good features, engineering, and sound quality. 

Interesting.  Thanks so much for the information. 

I've been slowly working on a conspiracy theory that I prefer equipment with a 2nd harmonic distortion profile.  You can read about Nelson Pass's experience with 2nd vs. 3rd dominate equipment.  He designs both and says that a negative second harmonic creates the perception of slight warmth and 3-dimensionality while the 3rd creates the perception of increased detail and clarity.  He even has designs where you can change the balance between two transistors to vary the distortion from 2nd to 3rd and listen to the change in presentation.  I think it was his finding that about a third of audiophiles prefer each and 1/3 don't differentiate.  

With a triode based output section, I believe my Audio Mirror presents a 2nd dominate profile and that the accompanying warmth and 3-dimensionality makes the music sound more natural and real on my system.  Being a balanced design the Holo May eliminates all even harmonics, so it's 3rd dominant and indeed sounded very clean and detailed, but loses a touch of that warmth and dimensionality.  

I tried to ask Ben at Mojo about his dac, but he wouldn't tell me what the distortion profile looks like.  I tried looking at the layout, but was a bit confused about the op-amps and how the different OAs related to the single ended vs. balanced outputs. I guess he's just moved to a pure class A output section, so maybe once I see a picture of that I'll be able to tell if it's a fully balanced output stage or not. 

@rareace I think it's going to come down to personal preference (and system/ears) as both dacs are outstanding in their own way.  

I kept the Audio Mirror T3-SE because it provides the most real, natural, 3-dimensional sounding image I've heard in my system.  

The May, however, produces the most accurate and extended frequency response I've heard in the system.  It's really striking how it seems to perfectly reproduce every single piece of the spectrum.  It also produced the largest soundstage, both in width and height.  It was super clean and detailed, without sounding digital or harsh.  There was a touch of brightness, but I do believe that would have gone away if I'd been able to put more than 200 hours on it before being forced to pack up my stereo to prepare for a move. If I were more concerned about accuracy and/or details, the May definitely would be the winner.  It's a great dac.  Wish I'd been able to fully complete the break in process.

@rareace  Interesting. I have the Mojo on my radar. Could you tell me more about the comparison? (and the models you have/had on hand)

@tds3371 Thanks for the update.  One thing to think about in regards to the balanced outputs.  As I noted above, if the dac has a true balanced design, it may not produce the sound profile you're used to with your SET amplifiers.  Single-ended triodes produce second harmonic dominant distortion profiles (although the 3rd can become dominant as they are pushed to the top of their operating point). 

If the dac you're going to audition has been tested by ASR, that can be a good source to check and see what the distortion profile looks like and see if it's similar to what you're used to with your SET amps.

@tvad So glad you put up a system and your last post got me to check it! Thanks and good work (especially on the diffuser panel), super impressive.

Interesting that you’re mixing distortion profiles in your gear (odd only until amplifier, then 2nd dominant)...

I’m still not sure I fully believe myself when I say I prefer 2nd dominant, but as I look back on some of the excellent amplifiers I’ve tried, I preferred those that fit that profile (Coincident Frankenstein 300b, First Watt F4) over those that had a 3rd dominant (Atma-Sphere M60s, Pass Labs XA25). Once the same thing started happening when I began demoing dacs, I decided it was something real.

and @tds3371 I think you’ve got a very good reason to want two sets of outputs and have one be balanced. Sorry if I missed that reasoning earlier. (And good number choices in the username, btw!)