BAT vs. Quicksilver

You may also want to consider the Quicksilver Triode, a much less publicized
unit which Sanders doesn't even have up on his website and sells by word of
mouth. It uses the same 6C33C tubes as the BAT and is built on a similar
chasis as the V4 (but is a completely different amp). Rarely seen used, I
believe the retail is around $5k for a pair so it is in a different price league. I
know at least two A'gon members who own and love these amps: Boa2 and
Jordi. Contact either or both for input on them. I have no direct experience
with them, but have owned four different pairs of Quicksilver amps and have
loved every one of them in their own right. Mike makes some damn good
products. Be aware the Mike (Quicksilver) is moving his business from Reno
to Denver over the next month, but I'm sure he will respond to any queries.
Over the years of dealing with him I've found him to be a man of tremendous
integrity who stands behind everything he makes.

Marco

Hey Peter - I do know Mike did a bunch of experimenting and built several prototypes of different designs in Triode form back in the late 90's I think it was. That EL34 amp I had of his was one of those triode prototypes from that period and of course the SET amps I have. I think he made many versions of the EL34 as I've seen several come up on occasion both here and on Audiogon. They were built on his early 8417 chasis as I recall. That amp sounded great. I sold it to a local guy who I've sold several things too - we should go take a listen to it sometime, he's a nice fellow. Used to be a regular at those Seattle Audio Society meetings you've been to. Anyway, you should pose that question to Mike Sanders to see if he did experiment with putting the V4's into triode. I do know Mike is personally not a big fan of Triode because of the second order harmonic distortions. I believe the 6C33C was the only triode design he's actually put into production.

Marco

Good suggestion Justin - Keep in mind, not only in considering his suggestion, but in considering any of your alternatives, and someone correct me here if I'm wrong, but doubling your power is only going to give you an additional 3db. You said in your post you need MUCH more power. In my experience I would not consider doubling the power as gaining MUCH more power. That said, if you do like the BAT you have, weighed against the alternatives you are considering and the price you would be paying, I think Justin's suggestion is a good one.

Marco

Ever since I put this BAT into the system, I feel it. now is it the tubes or the BAT???

It's probably the heroin.

Specs is what specs does. Yeah, I didn't mean to imply you should look at specs as a guideline for your purchases. But regardless, in considering purchasing a second BAT to punch it up, again, my direct experience in doubling power (buying a second BAT would quite literally be doubling your power), regardless of subtle deviations and the softer clipping of tubes over SS, tube watts vs SS watts, not withstanding, is that I would never subjectively term that increase as "MUCH" more power. For sure it is a difference to be heard/experienced, but I guess I'm just keying in on the "MUCH" in your original query. Thanks for the confirmation/clarification Tubes108.

As far as a serious answer to your "is it the tubes or BAT"; I can't say since I've never heard your system, nor a VK60 for that matter. I'd bet it was a combination of both. Different tube amps can sound as different as any two amps of any topology. If it is tubes in general that you do like, that will not necessarily mean that you will like every tube amp out there. If it is the BAT, likewise it doesn't mean that every BAT amp is going to float your boat the same way. Why not see if there are other Audiophiles in your area who have gear that interests you that you might go and hear? Seems like you have tremendous experience in music and recording and you are the kind of person who knows exactly what they are looking for. Sounds to me like you have it with the BAT and I'd tend to lean in the direction of Justin's original recommendation to get a (used) second VK60 and see if it gives you the power you need. At least then you will have a known quantity. At worst you can sell it again and likely not loose anything in the process.

Marco