Mapman
You're assessment may be the correct one.
As I have tried every variation imagionable.
Two reasons that keep me hopeful:
I am satisfied with PSB Synchrony's overall balance with my system & would like to keep them.
It seems improbable the the manufactur nor any other user of these speakers can identify with this problem. |
Can't you get your dealer who sold you the amp and/or speakers to help you sort through things?
My dealer thinks I'm a kook or have hearing/mental issues..
The support @ PSB are even worse & dismissive.
I would say for the record they are rude with no patience,interest or respect
That was my experience with PSB phone support.
I would never recommened this brand to anyone even though I like their speakers.. |
"What happens if you listen to an LP, and not only have the digital off but entirely disconnected, even unplugged from the wall. This is sounding more like an RF interference problem, and malfunctioning digital can do that"
I have not tried to unplug digital
Video sources loose their oomph too:
The soundrack on a James Bond DVD will go from viceral groans in the backgound that heighten tension to just background sounds.
Voice loose depth & personality
These are world class $5500 speakers highly rated by everyone.
They have (3) woofers to support solid bass. |
Unfortunally my dealer is not located in NYC rather Chicago & Florida
I purchase from online authorized dealers to get a modest discount & avoid paying high NY state sales tax. |
Open letter to My Audio provider & dealer:
Dear Sir:
After 150 posts to my bass loss issue the consenses is for you to
use your resources to find the right person to assist me.
Please read some of the posts
I assumed they would have given up by now but are pretty determined
I had an Electrician check the connections but there was no problem
Most informed members of A'gon are convinced my speakers being 4 ohm are not up to the task or losing there bass grip after a period..
I request you ask PSB if they can be more involved and less dismissive
Please reply |
My current system does not support headphones
I live close to Brooklyn |
A respected dealer suggested I purchase a sound level meter.
Measure a bass test one when it sounds good then again when it changed
Does this route have potential to lend "credibilty" to my claims
AP |
I wish to retract what I said earlier about PSB support
I spoke to a representive at length today
He was patient+responsive but feels it's an acousticial issue
|
I had 2 Bryston integrated amps before switching to MF |
In order to use a power amp that means purchase of a preamp as well,correct?
I was interested in Bryston new line of pre/power & was informed by Mike there is no difference from the B135 integrated (which I owned) |
I will ask my dealer Audio Salon if he would lend me an amplifer to try this procedure.
Also to Ralph,I tried your suggestion of pulling out interconnects when the bass fails then reconnecting..
I'm afraid that didn't work.
AP |
If someone lives close by in NYC would be welcome to come here & troubleshoot.
I admit not being an expert on these matters
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong |
Foundation II is placed on the floor behind components.
I've tried plugging the amp directly in the wall. Ocassionaly it would restore the better sound but generaly not.
I'm very impressed you noticed that in the article as it was easy to overlook.
I'll try moving the power conditioner or adding feet.
There certainly are alot of details to this hobby..
I allready know it's expensive,fustrating & not g/f friendly. |
I hear the "correct sounding bass like blood flowing through the music..My feet are toe taping & I am never figidigy..
After between 1 hr & 3 the sound changes and the patient no longer has the same "blood type"..
My toe no longer taps and it's not worth listening any more.So I would say the difference is like night & day.
Today after the desired sound left I waited a few hrs but it didn't return.
I pulled out the speaker cables on one side of the amp and reconnected the other side in it's place.
After 3 tries back and forth the bass returned in full bloom with one speaker connected.
I settle with this as I don't wish to risk blowing the found sound trying to have both speakers working.
But a major clue seems to be that I can usually find a way to get one speaker working with deep bass after losing the sound from one or both.
For some reason when the amp peaks after an hr.or so there is a distruption or short somewhere.
Like the amp or speakers need to reboot
I resent having to go though this nonsence daily |
I asked mike at Bryston when considering Preamp BP17 & power amp 2.5BSST
He said they were the same as B135sst integrated in seperate boxes |
I've tried power strip recommended by Naim/one by emotiva/wall outlet & Audio prism.
The best sound was with the Foundation II.
Bass issues were never stabilized by anyone of them. |
that was very informative article
I often feel my turntable seems to sound better/longer than my cd player lasts.
And the Video dosen't last long at all
That's why I've been playing records alot lately.
Analog can't be beat anyway..
The best CD players I've had were
Linn ikemi,Bryston BCD-1 & Sony SCD-1
Ayre wasn't my cup of tea for some reason..
Currently autitioning Naim CD5 XS but after one cd the sound changes for the worse.I prefer not to misjudge this player when the full frequency's are messed up.
This probably happened while auditioning Ayre CX7 eMP.
Source components with relatively low voltage power supplies (usually 25 volts or less) will tend to have broader current pulses with lower peaks. Larger components with higher voltage power supplies, like amplifiers, will have current pulses that are shorter in duration, and higher in magnitude (amps). This is because amplifiers have to get all their power during the small portion of the AC waveform that is higher in voltage than the power supply in the amplifier. The current pulses vary in frequency and peak depending on the frequencies and volume level of the music being played. These current demands may well be the reason that it is not too unusual for mid-priced PLCs ($300 - $600) to sound like they are limiting amplifier performance instead of making them sound better. Mike VansEvers is designing his PLCs to cope with those short duration, high current demands from audio components. |
Bifwynne
What does "the zeros" are looking like the solution mean? |
I removed all cables today out of fustration,will reconnect w/o power conditioner.
Also feel it is doing something detrimental to the sound/dynamics
Plan to try cablepro revelation power strip with no filters |
If it were me I would unplug all the digital stuff (CDP and video) from the wall, then run the turntable and see how the system holds up.
Today I will set up just amp & turntable sans digital.
Sounds like a good experiment!
" in fact can come back without the system being messed with"
Not sure that is necessarily the case as I recall?
Yes the optimal sound has left then returned an hour or day later but I usually fiddle the cables long before that happens.
|
I thought Cablepro Revelation is just a passive power strip w/high quality plugs?
How could that be less effective then wall outlet? |
I disconnected all the digital & power conditioner.
All I'm running is the turntable plugged into the wall.
Today was probably the worst sound in a long time
I seem to be going in the wrong direction
I was unable to establish the solid bottem end at all.
The sound was restrained & boreing/lack of dynamics.
I switched speaker cables many times with no eureka moment.
My conclusion is I am in someway inept at the task at hand and require an expert.
I get deep bass sometimes which I enjoy and I get passive bass most other times.
Perhaps the power conditioner is bumping up the bass sometimes like a subwoofer & then settles down to less dynamic sound?
The other day I borrowed Analysis Silver speaker cables from the cable company and hooked them up.
There was alot of indistinguishable "noise" in the bass region but it was undefined & I didn't like it at all.
Perhaps the Audioquest comet has some way of "doubling" the bass in the first hr.
Again I need someone with knowledge of what sounds right to assist me.
The bass when it is there clearly is is taut yet supple,moves air & can eaisly follow the bass line..Adding much emotion & excitment..
I get that with all sources or not with any sources..
I'm more than beginning to suspect a curious "malfunction" in my processes if not hearing/interpertation.
I don't even think Freud would take this case.. |
Also, just to be sure, I assume that when you disconnect and reconnect the speaker cables you have the amplifier turned off while doing so.
Yes of course Al |
I have an ad running on Audiogon but don't see the buy it now or ask questions option on my end.
Is that something new or is there a mistake
Here is my ad under cd players:
Naim Audio CD5 XS
Can someone tell me if the ad is functioning correctly |
I did move the equipment to different locations with no positive results.
There is no dips in my votage,confirmed by an electrician |
But I think you will practically attain very high levels of performance sooner by using a dedicated amp better suited to bring out the best in the PSBs. Use the current MF integrated as a pre-amp only then, as AL suggested.
I have requested loan of MF amp from my Dealer
Still no response
I have arranged person with SPL meter to visit next week.
AP |
Next time the bass dries up, shut the entire stereo off for about an hour, then see how it sounds.
That's exactly what I will try
Thanks |
Unable to regain the bliss sound at all today
I may be abusing the system in different ways
Considering virtual yacht raceing |
Perhaps another clue:
Today it was suggested I play analog w/no digital
I took out all the cables and set it up but had a disappointing sound.
Took everything out tried again w/digital repluged in
Again,Unable to regain optimal sound even with one speaker.
Took everthing out again and reconnected just analog turntable.
This time the bass returned w/full dynamics (one speaker)
Question:
Could the way wires are falling on each other or something else during set up be causing this mess?
I will use this opportunity to listen G.Harrison Material world 180g vinyl
Hope at least to get through one album before vanishing act.
Thanks for everyone's patience with my illogical audio problem. |
I don't live near an airport & wouldn't be affected in that way. |
I set up just analog no digital but w/power conditioner.
Once again I found the sold,dynamic sound.
I said if this stays I will forgo TV,DVD even CD.
But just 20 minutes into listening
I could hear the kick drum less & less
And over about 10 seconds my sound was gone.
When the song was over I had entirely different presentation than previous.
I went back to song #1 & it was crap
In a word anemic sounding
I just heard this song and it was powerful,clear,driving with punch..You name it the sound was the way I like it.
Before I could sit back and enjoy,it was gone.
I'm not making this stuff up..
|
It's been a while since I used stock power chords but will give it a shot. |
Atmasphere I tried your suggestion of turning off the amp when the sound changes and my first try was successful!
I only waited 10 minutes and returned but the bass was back in full bloom.
I don't know how long it will last but will explore this development till I discern a pattern.
Something must be overheating? |
NO listener fatigue here
The optimal sound rarely lasts past one CD/LP
The sound goes flat after being dynamic..sometimes before a song ends.
This has been happening for a year w/multiple components,cables & speakers.
But I did stay with Audioquest & PSB not knowing for sure if they were a problem for me. |
Hi Atmasphere:
I lost the bass yesterday after "looking" for it all day.
I turned off the amp as you said and shortly after it was back.
But there is no pattern yet..I'm working with this procedure right now..
Today I played a Record with full dynamics & everything sounds good.
I am going out for the day and will listen when I return.
I have noticed better response during the am than pm but again it's not really consistent.
I'm working on acquring a SPL Meter probably from Radio Shack unless someone I know takes the time to visit me.
I have a portable cd recorder & plan to record when the bass is there & not-maybe hear the difference from the cd I make.
Thanks
Tony |
I spoke with Musical Fidelity and was told they are High Current and go low 2ohms
He insisted I don't take the cover off the top |
Amityville Is in NY not CT
I've been there |
I have an observation:
When I use Marantz Learning remote to press mute on the amp.Many instances that's when I notice the sound changed for the worse.
Is that "remotely" possible? |
It's possible that you're still young enough that your hearing extends up this high and you're bothered by the spike
I'm 53 years old |
It seems switching between sources or mute using the remote
causes a break in the circut.
When I release mute The fuller sound has been comprimised.
Sounds less like an audiophile system
I noticed sometimes while turning a record & putting needle down the same "distruption".
This dosen't happen all the time but enough to make me aware of it.
I always loose the good sound at some point
After using remote for the amp odd concidence that's when the sound may change |
I haven't tried other speakers since I like PSB sound & look..But my second choice would be Joseph audio
I prefer not to advertise,box up & sell synchrony one's unless necessary. |
I think ignore comments about learning remote distrupting the sound..too far fecthed
Atmasphere:
For second day in a row after losing the better sound
I shut amp off,came back 1 hr.later & the sound returned to optimal/
If it happens next time I'll consider this a breakthrough of some sort>
|
My apology
Marantz CD Professional CD Recorder CD300 |
For the record I have a steady girlfriend that hears when the music changes..
Just the other day said "what happened" like the air out of a balloon. |
I'll do that now as I lost the good sound again |
When the electrician visited, did he monitor the power before, during and after you had these issues
NO
"did he not hear the issues too"?
No,I had deep bass while he was here
A few minutes after he left the bass changed
I called him back and he returned but was unable to hear the difference
The depth behind the bass notes was clearly diminished to my ears but not to him
So I guess draw what conclusion you seem appropriate.. |
Ralph after the bass diminished today I turned off the amp for one hr.
When I returned the bass was full & satisfying again
I believe this is the third time in a row that this procedure has worked.
I thought turning off my amp and fiddling with cables was the trick
Apparently turning of the amp was making the difference
I made it through an entire CD this evening before retiring.
And had satisfying bass most of the day
Clearly we're making progress
But something in the amp must be overheating for changes in the dynamics when warmed up.
That shouldn't be |
You're right I haven't made any progress
The problem persists
I didn't expect to have a problem with such high end equipment.
Apparently what you say about the amp seems to be happening:
"if the power supply is not up to the task it will sag on bass transients more when the amp is warmed up than when it's cold. As the bias is asking for more current when it's warm than when it's cold".
I should either change speakers or amp right? |
|
do you have a CD with frequency-specific tones you can use,like one of the old Stereophile Test CDs? One-third
Yes I have Stereophile test cd #3 |
