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Back into vinyl - part 1

About five years ago, while I was living nice, quiet, and boring vinyl-less life, I run across some very nice LPs while walking around my local flee market. I got rid of all my records years ago, almost immediately after Sony and Philips promised us all “Perfect Sound Forever”. My music life was easy and simple, few hundred of my CDs were complemented by couple hundred cassettes and only sometimes I was wondering how come some of my cassettes sounded very obviously better than CDs.
But I would not let these thoughts bother me – digital was better, period. Doesn’t every manufacturer of audio equipment say so for 20 years now?
Anyway, the albums I run across were so dear to me and so impossible to find on CDs that I bought them, without even thinking about the fact that I had absolutely no idea how to use them. Did they even sell turntables anymore?
Being a nerd I started searching the Net for information and to my surprise discovered that not only they still sell TTs, but there is a whole range of them, from 50 Presidents all the way to tens of thousands.
I was considering getting me some of those 78s, so three-speed machine was needed. I quickly found a site of KAB Electro-Acoustics, and called the guy.
Kevin was very helpful and knowledgeable. After hearing my pathetic story he very kindly described me current situation on the marked and few days later I was a proud owner of KAB Broadcast Standard, equipped with Shure V15VxMR.
The LPs that I bought sounded amazing. They were almost 40 years old, though in very good condition, but the sound was so real that no CD could even touch it.
Bare in mind, my system was nothing to write home about – middle-of-the-road ES Sony CD player, amplifier and cassette deck and Mission speakers.
And then I found audio forums.
OK, I have to admit – I am always questioning my knowledge. Even when I am 100% sure about something, there will always be a thought buried somewhere deep inside, saying “What If You Are Wrong?”
So I started asking questions and in return heard condolences about my TT and really stupid explanations about why direct drive is inferior to belt drive. Someone even quoted well-respected magazine reviewer stating that DD table is constantly changing speed at a rate of about 3500 times a second, which is quite audible.
I bought it.
I sold my KAB table (surprisingly very close to the original price), in my heart blaming Kevin for selling me this junk, and got myself a … well, I don’t think I should use any more names here – it is really irrelevant. Let’s just say that the table was listed at $750 and at that price point is considered to be a de facto standard in audiophile world.
Well, this is where my problems started. First, the damn thing was running fast. I was trying to get my dealer to fix it with no positive outcome. “The table is flawless” was the answer. Oh and did I mention “No Returns” policy?
Running fast, switching between speeds was a nightmare, and then in 2000 they released an updated motor in which was supposed to fix speed deviation problem (what problem?) which set me back another $150. With no positive outcome.
I had to let it go, losing a lot of money in the process.
What do you think I did next? Correct, I bought another belt-driven table from different manufacturer. It was about twice as expensive as my first one and was coming from the company that is even more respected in audiophile world.
The construction of the table was very unusual. Almost as unusual as one of the first models from this company, shown in one of Stanley Kubrick’s movies.
Built quality seemed to be better, but as I discovered, in order to achieve best results, I needed much better tonearm, special power supply etcetera, etcetera… Oh and did I mention that you can’t really clean the record on this table? Friction between the belt and the platter is too low for it…
I got back to the previous company and purchased their just-released top of the line model. Exotic materials used for platter, outboard power supply, fancy words used in its description… I was not as stupid as I used to be, so I purchased it from Canada, thus loosing my US warranty, but saving about 30%.
Well, what do you know? The table was running fast! The brilliantly engineered power supply did not allow for speed adjustments without knowing the schematics and friendly technical support staff of the manufacturer was too friendly to respond to my request.
Another bummer.
I was getting smarter. No more purchases, I said to myself, before I am sure I know what I am buying.
Very famous and very local manufacturer just released reasonably inexpensive model, which I borrowed from my local dealer. Build quality was so low that I still don’t understand how people can actually mention the word “quality” when talking about this table? Platter bearing was loose, table was running slow and besides the motor was running hot as hell. I called the company with my questions and they responded that bearing has to burn-in (oh really?) motor has high operating temperature and speed can be easily adjusted by using their power generator costing a mere $1000! Thanks!
I tried few more tables. The more expensive they were getting, the more I was shocked by their poor quality.
I got tired. My vinyl collection was several hundred LPs by now but I had no means of listening and enjoying.
Then I called Kevin.
I told him about my experience and my frustration and his simple and knowledgeable words got me back to real world.
I have a degree in electrical engineer for crying out loud, cant’ I do something?
And I did.
To be continued…
alex_yakovlev

Showing 14 responses by qualitymanfc28

qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
I have a query. I have fitted the KAB PS1200 power supply to my Technics SL1200 and the improvement is startling to say the least. I wonder if anyone has tried to replace the flimsy power lead from the supply into the turntable with something better? I am thinking some sort of woven Kimber cable with RF shielding properties might improve things even better. Anyone experimented out there?
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
Hey all you SL1200 lovers ut there. Kevin has showed me this link. You should have a look. I love Kevins sonic domes but they look kinda home made, these look the business. I have ordered some and will let you know if they work in due course.
http://www.decks.co.uk/products/accessories/deck_accessories/isonoe
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
I have now had the replacement feet for 10 days and have done some comparative listening tests. First impressions are favourable.

Based on "thump the turntable support whilst wearing headphones with the pickup stationary on a record"

1 Stock feet - horrendous thump heard
2 Kevins sonic domes - reduced thump but still a thump
3 Isonole feet - absolute silence

Based on "thump the deck plate whilst wearing headphones with pick up playing a record". This was not a heavy thump, I would say equivalent to someone knocking against the turntable support whilst playing record.

1 Stock feet - pick up jumps out of groove
2 Sonic Domes - pick up keeps in groove but mistracking
heard
3 Isonole feet - rock steady, no perceptable difference

Listening to music via speakers at normal volumes (85db measured on a cheap hand held sound level meter so accuracy not good)

1 Stock feet - rock solid image, dark background,
instruments portrayed accurately. Human
voice nicely presented.
2 Sonic domes - as above but more of it.

3 Isonole feet - Another veil gone. Everything more
vivid, dynamic. Last trace of
silibance gone from female voice.

Same test via headphones, speakers switched off.

The same findings as above.

Conclusions: I really do not understand this. It must be all to do with vibration and transmission of the vibration. My outfit sits and an Optimum 5 shelf rig coupled to a suspended wooden floor via castors. This is not the most rigid of setups. I therefore expected differences using speakers but via headphones?????

There seems to be something more fundemental going on here! The only explanation I can come up with is that vibration is entering from somewhere else, apart from the speakers, maybe from the amp that sits on the second shelf of the stand, and that the Iosonole feet are filtering the vibes out. The sonic domes are reducing this vibration but the Ionoles are killing the vibes dead.

So are the feet worth it?
If you use your SL1200 at horrendous volumes (DJing?) or in an environment that is less than ideal, most definitely.

If you use the SL1200 for normal domestic listening and have paid attention to obivous sources of vibration probably not, go for the sonic domes.

If you are after the last enth of quality then definitely yes. Another veil been lifted.

One thing is certain, ditch the stock feet.

My equipment is good but not high end. If I can hear the differences then I am sure someone with a well matched superfi system will be over the moon with these feet.

The pecking order for upgrade for the SL1200 has to be:
PS1200 first
Arm damping second
Feet third
Threaded clamp fourth
Strobe disabler fifth.

It would be nice if someone with the time, knowledge and test equipment could run a proper measured comparison against the stock feet and come up with an explanation of what is happening.

Music used for each set of feet was:
Joan Armatrading "Show Some Emotion"
Leo Sayer "Another Year"
Beethoven Piano Sonata "Appasionata"

Oh yes - one last plus point for the Iosonoles, by God they look the business.
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
If anyone is interested enough to have a look at these feet, the web site address is: www.isonoe.com There are good pictures and an explanation of how they work. My appologies as my original article spealt the name of the feet incorrectly. There is no "l" in the name.
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
For what they are they were pricey. With shipping in UK £90 which I think is about $150 US. A lot of people would baulk at that amount just for feet but they do seem to do more than just isolate. There is a definite improvement. Kevin is interested in them but is unlikely to import them to US as he could not sell them for less than $140 or so. He did say he would consider designing his own if there is enough interest. He also told me that his first project needs to be the arm rewiring as his own listening tests have indicated that the Mk 5 is slightly superior to the Mk 2/3 and the only difference he can see is the arm wiring on the Mk5 which carries a logo of "Technics Hi Fi" or something similar.
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
Jphii,
My God!! and I thought I was weird in the money I spend on my gear. That rig must be worth more than my House! I hope he has got a specialist audio consultant to design and build a dedicated listening room, it would have to be the equivalent of an anoic chamber to do justice to that equipment. Which of course leads on to the next thought - at what point do you abandon the quest for perfect sound and start building dedicated listening rooms before you buy your gear. Even modest gear would sound better than exotic gear in such a dedicated room.
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
That is amazing. I still wonder, however, for us living the suburban dream if a more sensible approach is to set a level of expenditure and then decide if above that level there is a discernable improvement as opposed to a different sound.

If, for example, you decide to spend in the region of $60k then would a $60k system in an ordinary domicile sound more lifelike than a $20k system with the other $40k spent on room acoustics.

I suspect a $1k system in a purpose built listening facility would sound superior to the $60k system in any "ordinary lounge". The problem is being tackled and the leaders at present are Tact Audio. Have a look at
www.tactaudio.co.uk and check out their Room Correction range. They have received excellent reviews in the English press.
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
Here, just for Pyschicanimal is part 2 of the saga of the “posh” feet.

The ideal for a turntable, arm and cartridge is to turn those minute wiggles in the groove into an exact electrical facsimile. That goal has been pursued through the years by some of the greatest minds in science. It makes you wonder if they had turned their talents to something along the lines of research into cancer or crop disease then the world would not be in the terrible state it is in today. Quite often a discovery in one sphere has implications and uses in something completely different. Sorbothane springs to mind.

What the hell is he on about now? Vibration, that’s what! It has been the bugbear of turntable designers since the record was invented. First there is the vibration leading to extraneous signals entering the system and then finding there way into the signal leaving the arm and secondly there are vibration losses, wiggles in the grove that are swamped and lost before they even get to being electrical signals. These new feet have been designed to eliminate the first kind of vibration but as a bonus seem to have a lessening effect on the second type of vibration as well. How can this be and what do I base my conclusions on?

My ears and a few amateur (and quite comical) experiments. I have already mentioned that my system is not ideally placed being on a suspended wooden floor on a smart but not inert rack. I managed to cajole my wife and son into dancing to some Chopin waltzes whilst I listened and made notes. I also recorded the results onto a mini disc. There were three sets of feet (stock, sonic domes and the isonoes). Each set was tried and recorded and the result listened back through headphones.

1 Stock feet – this caused much hilarity as the needle kept popping out of the groove causing my son to step on my wife’s feet leading to several sessions
with the foot spa and threats to sue me.

2. Sonic domes – much improved. My wife enjoyed the dance and even invited me to trot the light fantastic with her.

3. Isonoe feet – the music flowed and my wife and son stopped dancing to listen.

The listening to the three waltzes recorded onto mini disc via headphones.

1. Stock fee - as imagined, unlistenable
2. Sonic domes – good but you could still hear the footfalls.
3. Isonoe feet – nothing but the music.

Last session was just me, headphones and Joan Armatrading “Show Some Emotion” and “Willow”.

1 Stock feet – good steady and all you would expect of a KAB Broadcast Standard.

2 Sonic domes – all the good points of the stock feet with just a little more feeling and presence. The hairs on my arm were standing up.

3 Isonoe feet – Joan was standing in front of me and singing just for me. Goosebumps and shivers down my spine. A quite wonderful experience. It was not one of those never to repeated moments when everything was just right. This has proved to be consistent with all my listening. It is quite possible that I wanted to hear the improvement because I had just spent all that money and it was psychological effect but I don’t think so as that sort of thrill usually wears off after a few days. This is a continuing love story. I can not imagine going back to stock feet again.

Recommended – you betcha!!
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
First the whole TT debate of DD versus Belt versus Rim drive or whatever is a red herring. The only thing that matters is what your ears tell you. What is the holy grail for one is the dogs whotsits to another. I would like to say, however, that many years ago when the Linn/Naim axis strangled development of hi fi here in the UK there was one piece of excellent rhetoric that came out of it all and that was "Garbage in, garbage out. Using that as a starting point absolute speed accuracy, tracking ability, good steady and stiff power supply become paramount. Agree or disagree, a good turntable will sound better than a poor turntable. The difference should be obvious. Remember garbage in garbage out, what is lost at the beginning of the chain cannot be rescued later on. Irrespective of what electronics, speakers and connecting wire you use, a good (and compatable)turnatble, arm and cartridge will sound better through budget electronics than a lesses turntable arm and cartridge through the most exotic of gear. What you are talking about here is fine tuning to suit individual tastes.

Rega turntables are a rip off (I've owned a P3 some yers ago), Linn are good but very, very overpriced. The best I ever owned (to my ears) was an STD (the original nextel finish) with an SME3 with the ortofon intgrated arm wand. They went the way of all hi fi systems when marriage,children & mortgages intervened. They were sold. Now, some 30 years later I am able to indulge myself again so what have I bought to satisfy my my craving to hear my vinyl again. Yes, a Technics SL1200 with KAB fluid damper, Kevins groovemaster cartridge, KAB power supply, KAB threaded record clamp and sonic dome feet. I am a happy man. I read (and sometimes drool) over the mega buck turntable setups and wish for that lucky line on the lottery but you know what, I honestly believe that even if I could afford one of those mega buck monoliths I would still come back to the technics. It is well engineered and technics have the confidence to actually provide you with specifications that you can use to beat them with if the turntable fails to measure up to them. Not many (any?) of the mega buck manufacturers are confident enough in their product to go that far.

So I m a happy man. Kevin has told me that he has an idea up his sleeve but he is not sure if it is worthwhile pursuing. He feels that unfair criticism has been levelled at the tone arm on the technics (how many other manufacturers actually specify the friction of their bearings). He is toying with the idea of replacing the wiring in the arm. He wants it to be a DIY project and is going to provide a complete arm wand and wiring that will exit via the TOP of the turntable via a replacment machined hinge. Sounds facinating. I'm sure Kevin will not release it until he is satisfied that the improvement is worthwhile (audible). More power to him. While we have someone of his calibre in our corner the vinyl lp will reign supreme. Played on any good turnatble you will get the precision of a CD with the warmth and emotion of analogue.

Long live the difference!
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
I have the strobe disabler. Not as obvious an improvement as the fluid damper but very worthwhile and good value. It is very hard to quantify and describe audio sounds but to me the back ground seems blacker (does that make sense) allowing the instruments to stand out better. Piano especially resonates with authority and the timbre of the notes is very realistic. The ambience of the venue comes across well providing the recording engineer has not stifled it.

One other plus point is it is a sinch to fit. So is the threaded clamp. You must be careful when using the clamp as it is all too easy to exert too much force causing the record to concave. Great at flattening warps, giving the cart a better chance of accurate tracking and completely eliminating any slippage and consequently loss of information from the cartridge.

Happy listening.
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
Thanks for your input. Kevin is doubtful any improvement will be worthwhile. As for the AC input to the PS1200 I use a YELLO power chord from Russ Andrews. This is his bottom of the range job but superbly executed. I also use his replacement cable for my Sennheiser HD600 phones. The result is magical. Bass lines I didn't know existed suddenly appeared. The leads are horrendously expensive, almost as much as the original phones but I am happy. Visit the web site at www.russandrews.com, you will be amazed at the cost of some of the power chords. If you use phones a lot then a headphone amplifier is a must. Look at the Creek SE version that comes with a substantial power supply but once again only the flimsy wire for the DC output to feed the amplifier.

I am currently looking at replacing the ubiquitous trailing sockets (I know a separate spur is the correct way to go but my wife will not allow). In total I need about 20 sockets and want something more substantial than the flimsy plastic jobs. The cost must be reasonable as I do not intend to spend hundreds of pounds. I think I will start a project of making my own distribution board.

Still that will have to wait until after Christmas and if I can spare the time between and work and listening to my music.
Happy listening
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
I have received the new isolation feet for the SL1200 and will report after I have some experience. Early signs are very encouraging. It is liable to be a few days before I can report as I have three different sets of feet to compare (standard, Kevins sonic domes and the Isonole).

Now for a question:
I currently feed my turntable into the phono input on my Sony A/V amp. Then to my speakers, Kef KHT 2005 with a Mission sub woofer. It is fine for movies and uncritical listening. I do most of my listening on headphones which are fed from a Creek headphone amp. The signal is taken from one of the tape loops on the amp. The sound via head phones is vastly superior to the speakers, as you would expect. The problem is that the turntable now gives such a wonderful detailed and lifelike signal that I do not think the Sony phono input is doing it justice. I think a better phono amp is requied.

1st: What phono stage should I buy? Depth of pocket is an issue here. I think about £200 ($350) is about right and I have been looking at two possibilities. The current favourite is the Creek OBH 18 with Kevins Creek power supply. The specifications look fine, it is a name I know and trust and it will match the headphone amp.

2nd: Grahame Slee's MM phono stage with his own power supply £200 total. This has an excellent sonic reputation.

Which sounds better, which is better made and which will suit my system best? Are there any others I should consider?

Next question concerns hook up. I would like to feed my new phono stage directly into the head phone amp which poses no problem. This will give the best fidelity. If I do that I will lose the ability to play any other source through the head phone amp without swopping cables around each time I change source.

What is the solution? I can retain the present setup and feed the new phono stage into a spare line input but then the sound will be coloured by the Sony amp. I can use splitters at the headphone amp to input the phono stage direct and still keep the other sources available. This introduces the splitter into the chain and will probably colour the sound. The other possibility is to use an addon extra input switch box from the likes of QED but these also will dirty the signal from the phono stage.

So any one got any advice?
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
I want to ask a question but have no technical knowledge so forgive me if it appears stupid.

It seems to me that the finest sounding products are DC powered. Kevins PS1200 for the SL 1200, external phono stages, headphone amps etc. Why could not all audio products be supplied as DC with a wall wart supply? This removes the noisy transformer away from delicate electronic circuits. An obvious upgrade would then be a large transformer, mains powered with several DC outputs that could be used to replace the cheap wall warts. The outputs could be at different voltages to suit various bits of kit. It could apply to CD players, recorders, minidiscs, turntables, turners, cassettes, DVD etc. etc. The only problem would be the high power amplifier that would require a huge outboard transformer. Even that could be tackled by a dedicated engineer.

Any thoughts?
qualitymanfc28
17 posts
 
I think we are going off the thread with the room correction thoughts but if you will allow, I have one idea that may be of interest. I promise this will be the last one.

I have an experiement that most people should be able to try at some time that could prove to be quite revealing.

Take a nice warm sunny day when you are at home, your partner is out and the children are at school. The neighbours are at work and all is at peace. The ideal time for a couple of hours in front of the hi-fi with the volume up wallowing in glorious sound. Wait, here is the experiment.

Open the french windows onto the garden. Unplug the speakers and wheel them out onto the lawn. Run some cable from the amp to the speakers (some twin core mains cable will do - nothing fancy). Place the speakers on the lawn, raised from the ground on temporary stands (kitchen chairs will do) place a deck chair at the apex of your listening triangle, put some music on (vinyl, cd or live radio broadcast) and listen. What you have done is remove the influence of your listening room from your system. You are now listening to your system in virtual free space just as the makers intended. I think you will be amazed. I tried it once, some years ago and I still remember the glourious sound of Copelands "Fanfare For The Common Man" soaring over the neighbourhood as if the whole damn orchestra was in my garden, live. I have never been able to capture that accuracy since.

Just a thought and I promise to not go off thread any more.
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