B&W Name Change Theory

I hope they penetrate deep into the market and displace BOSE. I hate the fact that regardless if you buy a Porsche or a GMC truck, the manufacturer forces you to go with Bose system as part of the package.

I once passed on purchasing a Volvo R series wagon because I could not get it without the Bose package. These days it's all but impossible to avoid them.

They must be the richest audio company around.

Chadnliz

My GMC Envoy came with a Bose, does it sound great?, nope but ....IT IS A CAR, GET OVER IT!

I must have done something to you in a past life, my comments frequently force you to post something negative.

What bothers me about Bose car audio is paying extra, getting miserable sound and supporting a brand I don't like.

The inexpensive stock GM radio that came in my 1999 Yukon was more accurate and less distortion than my newer Yukon's Bose system. This newer one sounds "souped" up, like early color TV's with their over driven color to attract attention.

Exciting at first but really wears on you with time.

I don't expect audiophile quality in a car, but like Goatwuss, I find it enjoyable if it's clean with an overall balanced sound.

The Volvo I passed up buying was a premium R model wagon with a hot engine plus all wheel drive. Not available unless you bought it with giant Bose speaker sticking (literally) two or three inches out of the dash.

This was not a pleasant cosmetic addition. There must not have been sufficient depth for the big speaker, so a spacer with Bose logo was added with no attempt at making it flow with the original design.

In other words, ugly, premium price, worse sound and the buyer has no choice but accept what looked like a botched aftermarket job when it was in fact, premium original equipment.

Understood, it is impossible to know looking at text.

Regarding:

I didnt like that my Envoy had Bose, made jokes about it but it is a car so I dont fuss over it, that was my point, I also was only responding to you because you posted about not buying a car because of its stereo, it could have been anyone but it was you.

You can see by my last post that I too own a GMC with Bose. The Volvo was different. Bad sound, LOTS more money and looked horrible.

No doubt when my lease expires I'm looking at another GMC Yukon or maybe the Chevy Tahoe (same car). I have to have something that size for my photo business.

I was injured in my BMW wagon when I got T boned by a young guy in a giant chrome covered Pontiac from the 1970's. My seat was even scooted over and the controls knocked off from the impact. After that, the big GMC was looking mighty good to me.

Snofun3

Sounds like somebody at a Volvo dealership pissed you off.

My first Volvo was purchased in 1986 when my son was born. Poor design, bad design or whatever your opinion, he was safer riding around in that 740 wagon than the Honda Civic wagon that I sold to move into it.

Mercedes better? Yea, probably and maybe you can justify one but I can't.

When it was time for this purchase I had watched Honda go from about $3500.00 to nearly 10K as I prospected for the fifth one in a long line.

The Volvo was maybe 13K, and had an UNLIMITED bumper to bumper warranty, 5 full years covering EVERYTHING down to trim and paint. It had real leather interior, turbo option, dropped forged wheels, discs all four corners, electric sunroof and got great gas mileage.

This was pre-Ford and it was a damn nice car with no attitude from the company that was really more famous for having an image as the Swedish VW with their sturdy 240.

Honda was getting pretty full of themselves by that time. Money paid in advance and wait for a month or two and "maybe" the dealership would get stock and telephone you to come in. Frankly that sends a much bigger message than decals in the back window.

And no, mine had only one sticker, the parking pass required to enter the lot at Dallas Museum of Art. But I guess that's tacky too isn't it?

I would have been much cooler if I owned a Lexus with a gold package and 20" rims, right?

OK, Snofun3, not I realize you have a deep seated hatred for Volvo's with window stickers. Maybe you had neighbor with one and their dog's barking kept you up all night?

Here is a link that shows style and size of the Honda Civic in 1986

Civic

Funny, that looks nothing like a 5 series, maybe your confusing years.

Here's what Volvo was building in 1986 (although mine was the wagon)

Volvo

I just looked up safety ratings via Google:

Honda:
1982-2004 Civics were assessed in the Used Car Safety Ratings 2006 on their level of occupant protection.

(1984-1987) - "significantly worse than average"

Here Volvo:

(1984-1987)-"significantly better than average"

Volvo cars have a reputation for comfort, solidity, safety and longevity. Older models were often compared to tractors, partially because Volvo AB was and still is a manufacturer of heavy equipment, earlier Bolinder-Munktell, now Volvo Construction Equipment.

The average age of a Volvo being discarded is second only to Mercedes at 19.8 years. Reliability is considered better than average.

Last (and really not on topic for our private auto war :^) Safety data on vehicles large enough for me to conduct business.

SUV's WEIGHT/SCORE

TOP FIVE
Chevy Suburban 5,759/166.45
Cadillac Escalade
GMC Yukon Denali
Chevy Tahoe (tie) 5,372/155.26
Lincoln Navigator

NEXT FOUR
Ford Expedition (tie) 4,890/141.33
Mercedes-Benz ML320 4,396/137.42
Nissan Pathfinder
Infiniti QX4 (tie) 4,4147/134.58

BOTTOM FIVE WEIGHT/SCORE

Jeep Wrangler 3,322/96.01
Subaru Forester 3,171/91.65
Toyota RAV4 2,908/90.98
Dodge Durango 4,657/89.27
Jeep Cherokee 3,457/77.33

Note GMC, Tahoe & Surburban, (all the same car) are top of the heap and really a nice car at lease price (in this market) at $318.00 a month.

Snofun3. I'm not looking for the final word, I hope you read and understand where I'm coming from on this well diverted topic, and then respond.

I know nothing about the Ford- Volvo of today.

As stated in my original post, my opinion regarded my 1986 Volvo which was purchased 21 years ago and LONG since sold.

This decision was because my son had just been born and I wanted something more substantial than a Honda Civic to wrap around him in Dallas traffic.

Again, owing to the fact that Honda had gotten to where people were willing to pay $1000.00 down, just to be on a list and hope for a car was simply too much for me to bear, especially considering the difference in "substance" between the two cars and the price difference.

My copied and pasted comments were about the original Volvo company, their very reasonably priced 240 series and the good performing 740 Turbo with stunning warranty, when Volvo were trying to earn a spot in the US auto market.

I am "out of the 80’s," in fact I have moved back to USA cars, been driving them for the last 9 years because they are trying to win back customers, having built such bad product for so many years.

I would prefer a Mercedes or BMW wagon, and stopped looking at Volvo (long ago) when rear wheel drive went away. Volvo is not returning to rear wheel drive and I don't have the income to pay for BMW or Mercedes.

I think both of us are arguing points but I'm not sure we're on the same topic or disagreeing.

P.S. I still think B&W or Bowers and Wilkins (if they prefer being called that now) is capable of building a much more musical and linear audio system for automobiles than Bose.

That's what started this diversion, and it was a sincere opinion. I have B&W speakers in my HT system and think the world of them. Especially considering their price point and compact dimensions.