B&W Matrix 801 Series II

Wemfan, you can find a lot of information about the speakers here, listed as "Matrix 801 S2"

http://bwgroupsupport.com/

After reading your post about playing "quite loud", I think it is necessary to consider speaker sensitivity, 801s (87db), Cornwalls (102db), Khorns (105db). A decrease of 3db in speaker sensitivity means that double the power is needed to maintain the same system capability. As an example, should it require just 5 watts for a dynamic peak on the Khorn, then that same dynamic peak would require 320 watts on the 801. Here is a good online calculator you can use for different senarios,

http://www.allegrosound.com/Power_AllegroSound.html

IMHO, the large room with distance from the speaker and playing "quite loud" 801's just might not be a good choice for this application. Playing loud on any speaker that is underpowered can easily result in blown tweeters.

Depending on the age of the Klipsch speakers, many people think the older original drivers were better than some of the newer ones, although crossovers may need attention. I have a friend that is a Klipsch fanatic. Do a google search for, KLIPSCH HERITAGE REFERENCE DATA - (V.2 - 9 May 2008) and download the pdf. This is complete data by serial number on all the Heritage series.
Here is a good source for rebuild/mod to your Klipsch speakers,

http://www.critesspeakers.com/

Also, I think Zu Audio speakers would work well for your application. A few years ago while working at an A/V retailer, a fellow employee told me that SRV's guitar sounded more realistic on his Zu Audio speakers than on the B&W 802D/Mcintosh MC402 at the store.

http://www.zuaudio.com/

Elee, I do agree with the comments in your post as I have listened to 801’s many times , and owned a pair of Matrix 802’s some years ago.

My post is based on an experience I had while working at a B&W dealer. Sold a customer some B&W’s, not 801’s, but a lesser model that had a sensitivity of 88-90db, with quality electronics. Then he started having trouble with blown tweeters, so we repaired, increased power to maximum for the speaker, and he still had problems. So I went to his home and discovered he was doing exactly what Wemfan described, playing his guitar as he played the system. I then swapped the B&W speakers for some Klipsch towers with a much higher sensitivity. He was happy with the change because the system did what he wanted it to do, and never had another problem.

I’m not saying anything bad about the 801’s, I just think they are the wrong speaker for how Wemfan would try to use them.

Hi Tls49 - am curious. Which speakers with which amps ?

Ct0517, As well as I remember, the speakers were DM604, or maybe DM605, and the last amp used was a 200w Forte 6.

I do agree that if Wemfan wants to try the MC275, he should use the 4 ohm tap since the speakers' impedance drops to 4 even though it is 8 ohm nominal, however I disagree with your bi-amping suggestion, as this will create a coherence problem. When bi-amping, you should always use identical amps in a vertical configuration. Read this post by a well respected amplifier designer, especially the last paragraph,

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1234896660&openfrom&6&4#6

Also, while working at that Audio dealer, was able to attend a CES show, and fortunate to meet Nelson Pass and his staff since we were a Threshold/Forte dealer. They also said that bi-amping should be done with identical amps, however their amps at that time did offer a slight twist to this. The Forte 6 and Forte 4 are identical, however the 6 is biased for A/AB at 200 watts, and the 4 is biased for pure class A at 50 watts, so use the 6 on the bottom and the 4 on the top.

Elee, absolutely nothing offensive in your posts. My son plays guitar, and he is definitely a Fender guy. He has a vintage black face Princeton that is in very nice condition, however another amp he really likes is one we found at a pawn shop for $20 many years ago. It is a small tweed Gretsch that is an exact copy of the original Fender Champ.

Ct0517, I absolutely agree to try different things, as that does allow someone to learn more about this crazy hobby, and I have done my share over the years. However, some things can be like trying to climb a greased pole, and I refer to this comment in the link I posted,

"This is not to say that it can't be done, but having it turn-out well and actually conferring an advantage is difficult and unlikely in the extreme."

In your bi-amping experience, I do agree an active crossover would have helped, but IMHO, the different rise times and slew rates of the amplifiers would still compromise the coherency.

Wemfan could try it, and as long as everything is connected correctly, I can't see harming anything. He did say he was looking for something clear and musical. I doubt very seriously that clarity would be a characteristic of this set up.

The last I had the 801 set up was with OTL amplifiers. OTL means Outboard Transformer Less. Meaning the main power transformers are not on the amp plinth where the tubes reside.

?????? The Wikipedia Definition may help with your understanding of
an Output Transformerless (OTL) Amplifier, as I don't think it has anything to do with the amp plinth.

Ct0517, as I was reading, I could sense you were on a roll, and I was giving you a thumbs up for saying to use identical wire when bi-wiring, and I don't even like bi-wiring. Then at the OTL part, I stopped, thinking, "what did he say? That sounds like Outboard Power Supply." Boats never crossed my mind. Sorry, but I had to correct that. Glad you understand.

And, Cheers to You!

Ct0517, congrats on your great deal for the other hobby.

Wemfan, congrats on your great deal for the 801's. As I stated previously, some years ago I had 802's S3. At this time, I was working at a B&W dealer, and we always had 801 S3 on display. The premium amp brand was Threshold/Forte that matched extremely well with the B&W. The "E" series Threshold were the last ones designed by Nelson Pass, and are the most desirable. They rarely come up for sale, and sell quickly unless priced too high. The Forte was a less expensive line by Threshold but still had the same sound character. I have no affiliation with this seller, but IMHO this amp would sound extremely well on your 801's, with the power of the Parasound, but character more like the MC275.

Forte Model 3

The amp has also been serviced about 2 years ago by Jon Soderberg, who worked with Nelson Pass at Threshold. The amp can definitely hold it's own with amps costing much more.

As far as more expensive, a lot of people seem to like McIntosh SS or Pass Labs with B&W.

I agree that a second MC275 might be an option, however, it should be identical to the one you currently have. Looking at the Berners McIntosh Site, you can see that there are 9 different versions of the MC275. While some may sound the same, it is well known that some do sound different, especially the original. Also, it would be best to use them configured as mono, and not vertical bi-amp. With the woofer being the most demanding for power, it makes better sense to have 150w on the entire speaker, than to have 75w on the woofer and another 75w on the midrange/tweeter separately. When bi-amping, it is generally recommended to use an active external crossover bypassing internal crossover, which complicates things even more.

IMHO, since you have just acquired the speakers, it would be best to keep things simple for a while in trying to achieve some system synergy. I agree with others that crossover mods should be on the back burner.

Did you ever say what preamp you are using with the MC275?

Wemfan, hopefully you could sense I am a big fan of products from Nelson Pass in my 1st post on 3-29-14. As far as the X350, this is one of the original "X series" introduced, then came the "X.5 series", with the "X.8 series debuting in the last few months. It will be very doubtful to find a "X.8 series" used, and new in the desired power will exceed your stated budget. The "X series" are definitely quality amplifiers, however most agree the "X.5 series" have a lot more musical magic in the midrange. Here is a good review for the Pass Labs X250.5, with the 2nd paragraph noting some differences to the original "X series" design, and definitely read to the end as he rates it above similiar priced amps, and somewhat equal to one much more expensive. IMHO, I would try to find a "X.5 series".

As far as my previous recommendation of the Forte amp, I was thinking of this to get something quickly that would sound good with enough power. Then have more time to look for something like a Pass Labs. The Forte amps are usually an easy sell, however the one I linked to does seem to be priced somewhat high, but I'm sure he's factoring in the recent service by Jon Soderberg, the absolute best for Threshold/Forte.