B&W 804s + Atma-Sphere M60 MkIII.2

Swampwalker, thanks, I called Atmasphere and Ralph was not available. I talked to someone there and he said B&W804+MA-60 would be a good match but he was not so sure! I need to drop an e-mail to Ralph himself to find out about it.

Lewinskhil01, thanks for sharing your experience. I had 804D and 804S(!) driven by Mc402 which was excellent in term of details and sound-staging! However I felt B&w804D was a little bit bright, especially with AQ-SKY cables! I thought to incorporate some Tube Pre-amp to the loop. I added a MC2300 which resolved the problem, the brightness was gone. Finally I sold my 804D and for Tannoy Canterbury. The Canterbury has too much forwarding sound which becomes kinf o tiring after a while, I am not really proud of this last choice! I have to say B&W are excellent speakers for their comparative price range.
This 804s setup is for a second audio room (vacation house) and I am using my McIntosh Mx-135 as pre-amp. It is an excellent preamp-processor with a wonderful MM phono that I used it with a SUT for MC cartridges. I don't want to go crazy on spending too much money for this second set-up, my wife wouldn't allow that!?! I Heard Mc275 at dealer driving Martin-logan and Sonus Faber speakers. I was very pleased with its sound, it has a lot authority and details. Besides when I heard ATMA MA-60, I was so overwhelmed, perhaps there is something magic about OTL amps. Of course it was not a same setup and it is not an objective comparison! I try to find out more about ATMA MA-60 and matching issues with B&W804s. Otherwise I will go with McIntosh MC275, which is also kind of my wife’s favorite stylish amp! In the mean time I use my Denon POA-A1HDCI.
Lewinskih01, Regarding Subwoofer, I was planning to get one of those Velodyne EQ-Max10”. I read too much about one sub vs. two subs! Obviously, two subs resolving is more obvious. Besides there is a lot of challenges of incorporating 2 subs, placement, added distortion etc... I don’t know how much improvements I can get with 2 subs instead of one sub!? 20%, 30% of improvement or more?! Have you done this experience with just one sub? It seems placing subwoofer in the middle would be a good compromise!?
Cheers,
Michel.

Lewinskih01, you are right on real balanced connection, that’s another parameter I’ve been considering. Let’s see what Ralph is going to suggest.
For subs, your comments sound very professional and I am sure you spent a lot of time on setting the subs. I wish I had your skills and patience. I came across this article which is very interesting. I changed my mind on Subwoofer size. I guess it’s better to move toward a 12” sub. I am not really obsessed with a lot of bass in the music. I do love attending live music performances and the thing I noticed is that the bass in live music does not shake the salon, classical music to Jazz/Blues and even semi-metal group like OM! A good compromise on bass and the whole setting is the key! Besides finding a good subwoofer especially built for music is another challenge, because most subs are made for HT!

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb200101.htm

Besides finding a good matching amp, my plan is to get one good sub and perhaps later on move toward a second sub. Rythmik subs looks nice and well-built. There is not too much reviews on those subs, I was wondering how do you compare Rel Storm vs. Rythmik subs? I mean uniquely for music usage.

Michel

The link didn't go through?!

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb200101.htm

It asked Ralph (@atma-shere) about this issue and he responded even though his busy schedule, he is in RMAF show. That’s very impressive and shows how dedicated he is toward the customers.
Franck thanks for your suggestion. It is very interesting that even Ralph mentioned the same alternative of using Zero Auto T. I looked at several reviews too and it seems it is a valuable solution to resolve mismatch impedance issues between Tube-Amps and Speakers. There is some compromises but bottom line if one cares about OTL, that’s the solution to move toward! The other alternative is to change speakers! I was wondering with your speakers having 16ohm input impedance, you wouldn’t really need any Zero Auto T. Based on your experience, does this solution makes any changes (good or bad!) on matronymics and details?
Michel.

Lewinskih01, I’ve never had this impression that you were steering me toward MC275. It is a wonderful amp and no wonder it has been around for more than a half century! Contrary to that, I appreciate your sharing experience and as always I would like to learn more on audio setting stuff, it is kind of endless passion to improve sound quality and enjoy more from the music. By next week, I plan to ask MC dealer if I could have a MC275 for a week or so for a test drive!
The comparison was not really between Tannoy Canterbury vs. 804D. They are on different leagues and price ranges. I meant regarding price tag of T. Canterbury, I was anticipating to get more sonic features, like placement/precision and better distinguishing of instruments in orchestra, more depth behind speakers, more imaging on two sides of speakers rather than in front. I bought it as used locally and placed them per se professionally with some help. Of course tastes are different when it comes to listing preferences.

Francks, As for Zero T. on amps, there is this Graff Gm100 amp which functions as hybrid OTL! It seems they use kind of zero T. for accommodating low impedance speakers. A friend of mine (back in EU) has this one and she is very happy with it. I am not sure if Graff audio is in business any more.

As my wife complains, changing audio gears and never totally been satisfied with our choices is more than a passion, it is an addiction! I would add, it is a positive addiction…

Cheers,
Michel.

Lewinskih, We all have different tastes on judging quality of speakers. The major factor is based on our taste on what type of music we are usually listening. Most of the time I listen to Jazz, blues and orchestral /classic opera and chamber music. This doesn’t exclude my love for classic rock. So my comments are based on these kind of music and I don’t consider myself as an expert on audiophiles’ topics!
Regarding Canterburry speaker, it is an excellent speaker for chamber music, Jazz and somehow the blues. For example, when Pierre Fournier plays cello on solo, it is just marvelous! However, when it comes to big orchestra, you could not properly follow the instruments, there is kind of congestion on music. The violins and altos don’t sound really good at all, besides you could clearly hear the drums! This is maybe because of its nature of forwardness of music. For Operas, when sopranos and tenors walk away from each other and change their position on the scene, for example, one goes on right corner and the other on back left, you still hear them like they are almost next to each other! Generally speaking, it has a 3d imaging but it is kind of narrow one compared to B&Ws and isn’t present toward back of the speakers! As for classic rock specially the live version, you feel the fatigues on hearing after 5-10 minutes. A few days ago, I tried AC/DC lp, it was loud with a lot of bass, but you could not too much enjoy the flow of music and instruments, the bass is THE dominant sound which covers higher frequencies. It is obvious because the 15” woofer is in charge of delivering different range of frequencies. It is not a fast and very dynamic speaker.
Tannoy used to have some dealers in USA. When I talked to a representative back in EU, he was saying their distributor in US didn’t do a good job for selling/marketing the brand. Therefore they decided to enforce their present in Asia and EU. 18 months ago, I heard Westminster in a dealer in Bay Area and really liked the sound but not for $35k! This one was definitely out of my budget. Once I found a local sale of Canterbury with interesting price! I bought it and ask a local expert to tune it to my room. I used MC402 and VTL MB-450 II as amps. I found MC402 is better because of its deep bass and fast dynamic compared to VTL 450. VTL+ Canterbury sound had too much warmness, based on my taste.
As for 804, maybe it is not a real full-range speaker, but it is an excellent speaker when it comes to be versatile on different type of music. Sound-stage and details on mid-high frequencies is fantastic. Its only default is not having enough bass! I think a proper setup of subs+804 could provide almost as much as sound quality as the very expensive speakers. This procedure needs a lot of patient and acoustic measurements, especially when it comes on positioning two subs knowing different position combination in the room. For example in last CAS’13 I auditioned a setup of Zu acoustic + Sub (total ~10k) that has better sounding ( all my friends saying the same) than the Von Schemikert VR-11SE (~140k)!? Of course all comes to proper setup. That’s why I am seeking this path toward 804s+sub! Perhaps first with one sub and after that I will move toward a second one. The Velodyne Subs have very positive reviews but the issue I found with them is that you don’t have too much freedom to setup the EQ! their big DD version could be set up with computer connection but they are too way expensive (2x~3k)! I am looking to some B&W subs because of their experience on Audio music rather HT setup. The price wise also they are much affordable, especially some used ones. I have some budget limitation setup by my wife, which makes sense because as a second audio room, we are not going to use all the time.

Michel.