I bought a used B&K Ref. 20 preamp/processor/tuner here on Audiogon for $600($2500 new). It's a very good unit but agree with Tripper on the volume control not being user friendly. Still use it for surround (the processor is very good) but incorporated a tubed preamp for 2-channel use. B&Ks are good bargains used. They're very smooth, well built and musical but not especially detailed. Definite step up from mass market.