Ayre K1xe vs First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II

Well, I have not auditioned the First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II preamp, but I do have the Ayre K-1xe preamp, with the optional remote control and the phono boards. I have owned it for about five or six years, and I have very little interest in upgrading. (Well, to be honest, I do have a little interest, but I realize that to honestly do better than the K-1xe, I would have to spend a lot more money.) In reading the reviews of the First Sound unit, it sounds like it is a top notch preamp in the same category as the Ayre.

So I quickly researched some of the features of the First Sound unit, and here are some possible reasons for you to upgrade to the K-1xe, (and some reasons for you not to).

1. The K-1xe does come with a remote control, which only controls the volume and muting. It will not control switching of inputs, balance control or anything else. I decided several years ago, that I really like the ability to control the volume (and muting) from my listening position, and I will very probably never have a preamp without one ever again. (For twenty years I lived without one, but to quote Poe, "Nevermore".)

2. And, speaking of balance controls, the K-1xe does not have one. The reason being that like the First Sound unit, it is a dual mono design. Therefore, in order to enable the volume control to work via a remote control, Charlie Hansen designed a very complicated dual stepper motor remote control mechanism inside the preamp. This control unit is incredible, as it, like the First Sound unit, uses only the finest materials available. Since the remote control must turn both controls at the same time, there is no way to only turn one, thus, no balance control. (And, I will state that one can hear the sound of the stepper motors when adjusting the volume, albeit only either between tracks, or during very quiet passages.) So, if you like to fiddle with your balance control, than the K-1xe may not be the preamp for you. (I will admit that it did take awhile to learn to live with those few recordings that have the image off-center, but now that I have, it is not a big deal to me. But I realize that for some people a balance control is a must. My room is pretty symmetrical, but if yours needs a touch to get the room in balance, than this is not the preamp for you.)

3. The K-1xe is very, very quiet, and it is also a fully balanced design, so it is advisable to use balanced (XLR) cables. I do use such cables from my primary sources (both my turntable and my CD player), to the Ayre, and then on to my amps, (Lamm M2.1 monoblocks). While one can use single ended cables, (and I do for some of my auxiliary sources, SACD, Tuner, CD Recorder), the K-1xe truly does sound best with balanced connections, IMHO.
The unit is set up to have 3 single ended inputs, and three balanced inputs, one of which is dedicated to the phono stage, (so this might mean using either adapters on your tonearm cables, or having your tonearm cables reterminated with XLRs, like I did).

4. The K-1xe is a solid state unit, and it was designed from the ground up to be very, very neutral. There is no bloom whatsoever in the mid-range. If you are used to a bit of tube bloom, especially in the mid-range, then you might consider the K-1xe to be somewhat lean. (In actuality, it is not, it just has zero mid-range bloom. This might take a bit of getting used to, if one is used to using tube preamps, as I, and apparently you, have used in the past.) However, the trade-off to having a solid state unit is that it is incredibly quiet, and there is (obviously) no tube rushing noise. (I grew tired of having tubed preamps, (Counterpoint, ARC), that had tube rushing noise, even if it was just audible during the quietest passages. But then again, since it is solid state, there is no opportunity to tailor the sound to you liking via tube rolling.

5. The K-1xe has optional phono boards, which are fairly flexible, as one can adjust the gain and loading via easily changeable resisters. These phono boards are of near reference quality, and make this preamp one of the premier full function preamps, IMHO. To better the phono boards, you would have to spend a considerable about of money on a separate phono preamp, (and a decent pair of interconnects). Now, to be honest, this is the one area that I have considered upgrading, as I have a few friends that have what I consider to be such an upgraded phono stage, (albeit only slightly better). Specifically, I would like to upgrade to the ASR Basis Exclusive, as it is very quiet, and very musical, but it runs about $3,500, used, and figuring another $500-1,000 for an interconnect, makes for a very expensive upgrade, for only a small sonic benefit. (Since I bought my K-1xe used for $4K, (about half price), that means I bought the $1,600 phono stage for about $800. Based upon my listening experiences, I figure it is in the same league as most new $4-5,000 phono stages. (So far I have resisted the urge to spend $4,000+ to upgrade from the $800 phono boards. (A five to one ratio does not make sense to me at this point in time.)
Again, I will point out that the phono boards are set up for balanced connections, which is somewhat unusual, (although the ASR Basis Exclusive is also primarily set up for balanced connections too, which is one reason I like it). I am not sure if the balanced connections make the phono stage so quiet, but it certainly is one of the quietest phono stages I have ever heard. I love having deep, dark, black backgrounds to my music played on vinyl!

Well, there are some of the differences in features and flexibility between the two units.

Good Luck with your choice. (I made mine several years ago, and I have been very happy with it so far!)

Shsohis,

Congrats on getting the Ayre K-1xe.
Please let us know what you like, and/or dislike about it, and of course how it compares to the First Sound unit. (I don't think I've ever read of anybody ever comparing the two, so it should be interesting to see what you think.)

Hey Mtdking,

Actually you are partially correct.
The tubed Lamm power amps are indeed a quasi-balanced design, and would indeed probably sound better with single ended cables. However, the hybrid designs are fully balanced. (This is as per Vladimir himself, BTW.)

Whether or not RCA cables sound better, (with the hybrid amps, of course), I think depends on the cables and the preamps used. (And, since Lamm preamps are not fully balanced either, as I recall, I can see why Vladimir might indeed have said to you that RCA cables would sound better with the amps.) However, since I am using a fully balanced preamp, it only makes sense for me to use balanced cables. (Besides, I prefer the connections on XLR cables, to the RCA terminations. Better contact, and less chance of them loosening over time. And don't get me started on those "dang" locking RCA's!) :-)

And I am not trying to highjack the thread, (and since Shsohis has already bought the K-1xe, I don't think I am), I have a question for you mtdking:
What are you using for your system components now?
I have seen your posts on Audiogon before, (since we seem to respond to the same type of questions), and you seem to have gone through a number of the best amps and other equipment that I have ever heard. I am just wondering what you consider to be better than those we've been discussing. I would love to know what equipment I should make an effort to try to listen to next. Thanks!)

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone!

Mtdking,

Thanks for the tip on the Boulder and Goldmund amps. I will make an effort to try to audition them. I agree that the CAT amps are indeed amazing, but like you, they have too many tubes and run too hot for my use. (My Lamms already run a bit too warm for my non-airconditioned room. But a few degrees warmer I can put up with, several degrees I can not.)

(And I don't use "really" long cables for my K-1xe preamp to amp run, as they are "only" about 4 meters long, which for balanced runs is not that long.)

Jwm and Mtdking,

I think that one of the reasons that the DarTZeel amp did not make a favorable impression on any of us, (I somewhat include myself in your opinion), is that its design while quite good for the most part, (IMHO anyway), is a somewhat flawed design, in as that as its not very powerful, especially in the bass region. IMHO, one of the strengths of solid state is that one can make them very powerful and with lots of power reserves, so that it has great bass response. The DarTZeel's bass response is merely adequate, at best, and especially so for a solid state design. In fact, if I did not know going in that it was a solid state design, I would have thought that it was a tubed unit, because of the somewhat weak bass response, and because I thought that the mid-range was very, very good (especially so for a solid state design, (i.e. no grain, and fairly liquid), and its treble response was pretty good. (But not as good as either the Lamm M2.2 or especially your VAC Phi 300 monos, which has the best treble response I have ever heard to be honest!). I do think that Mike Lavigne uses it in the perfect way, in as that as his speakers have an active woofer, so that all the power goes to the mid-range and treble. (This might even help the treble response, but I never had the opportunity to listen to them in this manner.) My two cents worth anyway.

Shsohis,

Thanks for the update.
Glad to hear that you like it so far, even though it is a toss-up as to which is better, at least in the analog realm. (Not bad for a solid state unit, huh?! I agree that I too was somewhat surprised when I switched from a tubed preamp to the K-1xe as well.)

A quick question for you:

What cables are you using, and are they balanced or single ended?

(As you are aware, the Ayre unit, (and pretty much the entire line, to be honest), is designed from the ground up to use balanced cables.) Using balanced cables reduces the background noise slightly more, and it just plain sounds better, IMHO. And this includes the phono stage, especially since cartridges have a balanced signal, (although some prefer the use of the term differential to balanced when it comes to cartridges).

Let us know the ultimate outcome of your shootout!

Jwm,

I wish!
I went a few years ago, when I had a bit more disposable income. I went with a fellow audiogon member, and we had a great time. Between listening to all the music, checking out all the equipment, and going to all the great restaurants, it was probably the best time I have ever spent in Las Vegas. (If I could have not lost $300 at blackjack, it definitely would have been the best time.)

Shsohis,

Have you considered using balanced Nordost cables? I use the Quattro Fil cable for my preamp to amp connection, and Valhalla bi-wired speaker cables, and they work great. (When I get some spare cash, I will probably upgrade the Quattro Fil cables to Valhallas.) The Valhallas are definitely some of the most transparent cables I or my friend have ever tried. I did try some Jena Labs Pathfinder cables, but unfortunately, they had just a hint of darkness to them. and combined with the hint of darkness that the Lamm M2.1s have, produced a clearly audible dark sound. (But, the Pathfinders were wonderful in the mid-range. My friend uses these cables, and they sound great with his Lamm M2.2 amps.)

And I absolutely agree with you that the phono stage in the Ayre K-1xe is an incredible bargain. Sonically it is very close to your Pass Xono, and almost, but not quite up to the sonics of the ASR Basis Exclusive phono stage. (And all for just a fraction of the price of either of them.)

Good Luck with the next phase of your trial.
(And of course keep us updated on your results. This has been very illuminating so far! Thanks for doing this!)