Grreat Ill kick it off- so sorry been really busy with any free time i had left. Been busy selling off my entire HT setup. Realized it didn't warrant the expense i put into it.
Sion |
Any clue what the thread should be called though-
ideas please-
mine was going to simple
Ayon owners thread-upgrades and roliings |
great thats good ill start it , can someone write the beginning statements? |
Thanks for the responses guys, never heard of thoses speakers u mentioned probably have high sensitivity that tube amps really need. I've been running the spirit 3 on older ML source speakers and pleasantly surprised. Maybe not the best in any particular area but the ayon sure does it make a class better. I have not run it on my main Set up yet but will soon do so probably in the next 4 days or so after run in.
Just cant replace my main pre power of yet as it really does sound good in its current combo. Sonus Faber Liuto floorstanders and primaluna prologue premium pre with prologue 7 monoblocks with genalex kt 88.
I might stick with this combo for awhile till I hear or get recommended more down the road.
Thanks a bunch |
Wow , thanks for the responses guys.
TO: Boisty
Even though I've been in this hobby awhile and worked and sold audio in my younger days i wasn't the guy that used all the audiophile "words" and terminology. I mostly set things and put stuff together and wallah! most everyone pretty much enjoyed it. So if i come across dead in the headspace excuse me. I was just into the music it made. So when it comes to numbers and stuff i really hardly know anything. Not a techie. I just believe that music is my art and i enjoy it.
So here goes my little take on the Prima Luna setup.
Mostly i believe that audio stores and the salespeople they employ are music junkies with their own preconception of what sounds best to them at a given dollar value. i.e. ranges of dollars spent. 5-10,10-15. and they all advise you on what they perceive as best bang for the buck. Even though many buyers out there look at salesmen as distracting, audio people love sound and if they wanted to make it rich they wouldn't be in this trade. The Prima luna setup came from the advise of Kevin Deal from upscale audio. I try to look at the sound from a whole and from what i read try to mix and match its best properties for the signature sound i like. SO with all this in mind i luv the warmth or some say coloration of tubes , to me nothing is perfect and solid state tends not to have the "soul" that tubes offer. The Prima Lunas have that. it conveys the human voice very well, it makes u a believer that the person singing her song truly lived and loved in that moment. When it comes to the Piano she sounds like a good baby grand not a steinway as she does not have the intricacies of a real thoroughbred but instead like a Kawai or Yamaha. i use Pianos as a basis as my wife plays this often and i compare it regularly . Also its the prologue and not the Dialogue which I'm sure still won't match the steinway but more in the league of a Baldwin. The PL highs are good and airy but sometimes it tends not to have the upper hand on more delicate pieces. I am not sure whether its the amp or the speakers, but overall it takes me to that space where you listen and not judge and there lies the defining factor for me, i really enjoy its portrayal of music. Could it be better I'm sure it could, but for the money it makes me like music a lot. And it has POWER lots of it. But AB is still not class A. The Spirit is a taste of the ubber high end in honesty i have never spent so much on a single piece of equipment ever , but i wanted a taste of pure class A. So far its still in its burning stage, but i can tell its going to take me places. Im using it for the next 100 hrs or so on the ML source electrostatics on penthode as i was advised to. And within its second day i knew that the oppo 95 was not going to be its partner for life. It doesn't breathe the quality that this amp wants, so that goes to the PL setup where i think its panache for sonic detail will be more appreciated as the PL lacks that. I am receiving another base model CD player from ayon , CD 07 on monday, it will be a better companion. I'm sure of it, more tubey. ALso PAul from AYON swears by this.--ha ha don't they all. Out of the box the spirit has given new life to the logans, being more forward sounding the logans actually have a little depth too her now , transparency for sure the logans disappeared. i would like to throw the word imaging here but I'm not sure what that really means , but if it means that music is localized like pinpoint accuracy of instruments, maybe? i can't really tell yet i think its good. soundstage is limited to the width of the logans the PL throws a larger one on the Liuto beyond the speakers width . I'm thinking speaker limitations for the logans as 1500 vs 5000 isn't fair. voicing is superb and background noise is ZERO the PL likes to hiss albeit slightly. Piano - hmmm so far ill give it to the PL, the spirit is not ready yet. When I'm playing Yundi Li - Lidzt , at the volume i like the PL is only at 25% whereas the Ayon is near 75%. So for sure 8 kt 88 beat 4. So even with all that new transformer, the ayon doesn't come close in raw power. Logan has 90db sensitivity and Liuto 89. The specs on logan say 5ohms so i put the ayon speaker cables on 4 ohm ? hopefully that is correct where the Liuto is a very stable 8. In my humble opinion and i wish i was wrong, the Source does not synergise well with the ayon. Even though it sounds good it lacks cohesiveness. Again my personal taste. THe Golden Ear however seems to cherish the amp more due to its self powered bass , but that speaker seems to be lacking that ninth degree of refinement. which the logans have in the upper octaves. quagmire. THe only worry i have now is that the new speaker i choose has to be in the 6-10k range. that would not be good. thats why I'm looking in the 4k range. I'm hoping for a high 95db and refined one at that price range. sigh..not ZU too bright "thiel 3.7" 10k argh.
So thats my personal take on the PL. Sorry for the rambling but that is the best i can explain the music it makes for me. Also the glowing lights make the living room that much more romantic, And aren't all tube lovers romantics by nature?
ha ha - sorry but i really can't explain audio in technical terms not my forte. and if you don't listen or know pianos then this is must be the worst explanation ever.
Me - Bought my first quasi hi end gear at 20, bugged a salesman RAYMOND to let me test out all his audio equipment since i was 16, saved every penny like a true audio nutcase at 2.55 an hr. Never forgot how the first audio setup moved me-life changer an audio geek for life-Thiel speakers 1.2, krell KSL and KSA 50 and a meridian CD player. What i miraculously bought - apogee centaurs, michaelson audio tube amp and a Pioneer PD-91CDP and a gift from the nicest salesman ever, a used mitchell gyro deck TT.
thank you Mr Jim Thiel-u made great speakers. |
@erickminer
Yup synergy that word of audiophile fear and loathing , today I drove an hour an half with all my gear to test drive the VR33. It was good but I'm not sure about how it sounded and with that I think I'll have to pass. It did not synergize with my stuff....sigh, but it also could be how the speakers were placed and in a strange room with one speaker right up next to the wall and another in an open space with 4 ft behind it. Somehow the amp could not really power it with gusto. And the bass was wooly as the owner described it. I was also told by ayon to give the classic hd a try as that is their recommendation. @ 94db it actually might. I shall look into the proac d 18 and the addagio. I do believe the speaker I always wanted cannot do tubes as it is power hungry beyond all. The mighty Thiel 3.7. I'm also considering the dyne audio and the focal as well , they all sound good to me. |
@erikminer
Yup totally agree about the Thiel for the spirit no way it will drive them, or the Maggie's. Also in the end wife thought that the 1.7 were an eyesore and said you gotta be kidding gt them outta here!
The problem that I face is that the speaker really needs to me placed only about a foot or a foot an a half away from the wall. These are the problems that I face for the room it will be in. And most speakers seem to want 3 ft. And width to spare. Thats why I was so so interested in the VS vr33 s it really can be placed up against the wall ! I did some research on the proac speakers , it is good stuff, most European things usually are.
Speakers that are still in my short list are
Proac d18 or even the stand mount monitors from them.
Vr 33 because it's easily placed and that is huge!
Legacy classic xd as these are supposed to be real good and tube friendly
Gallo 3.5 because they said so
Strada with sub as it maybe all I need but hate speakers with no box
And lastly Lawrence audio violin they look fantastic, and use ribbons and tube friendly.
I havevalocal dealer here who has focals , I should go try them out but placement when I saw them last was at least 3 ft from the walls.
I live in San Francisco CA |
Ah yes that's why I was looking at the Vr 33 , it is one speaker that does the impossible. I just think it needs more power than the spirit has on triode. Recently I have been using the pentode mode on the ML source and it sounds more fuller. I guess it does not have what it takes with triode or the synergy as I suspected is just not there.
I just love floorstanders ! But the room sure wants me to do a bookshelf. I wonder about tekton speakers they have high sensitivity and might do tubes a lot of justice. But il will keep the proacs on the short list as it seems they have the synergy I'm looking for, by the way what kind of wires r u using. Im using some older zu cables wax and balanced Xlr. |
@reynold-i can actually go listen to them as it is a drive away in walnut creek, interesting. I really want to hear the proac though as a friend told me , either u like em or relly like em. Problem no dealer around all closed up in the downturn. This time im going to take my time to get a speaker as i had enough of buying and selling them away. But most likely its going to be a good stander at this point. Thanks for the silverline advise. |
@ Erickminer- was going to change the 12au7 on my spirit with NOS RCA blackplates- but was told that my tubes from ayon were NOS RCA as well. can you advise.
Iam also changeing My primaluna pre and power tubes as well,
i am a little confused about the tubes on the power amp. Is it more important to change the stock tubes on the pre amp or the power amp for better sound. the pre has 2 rectifier 2 rgu? and 4 12au7 . THe power has 4 kt 88 which are new from goldlion reissues. 2 12au7 and 2 12 ax7 each.
thanks
tubes are FUN !!!! |
@ERIC
@Robsker
Ordering from Brent Jesse RCA NOS blackplate pairs @50 a pair
12AU7 RCA blackplate, Old Logo, or made for organ brands. Fine 1950s vintage tube.
Hope these are the right ones? as i need 8 of them.
bought mullard 12ax7 reissues from guitar center 4 pcs 70 total for the PRima Lunas.they all had stock PL tubes. As the more i listen to the ayon its surely getting better. And the PL are starting to lag
Seems that cardas cables are the way to go , i have heard them recently while testing speakers. I just dont want to invest on speaker wires for the meantime as i recently got kimber 8tc and kimber pbj interconnects, by the way 8tc i like, pbj no good. i bought MA1 from morrow and it is way better-leaps and bounds ahead, and all for 50 bucks.
One other thing Has anyone heard Martin Logan Vista recommended year after year on TAS its on clearence sale for 2000 ! i am starting to like the logan sound. The source keeps on getting better as the amp and CD player peal off their onion layers.
Ill make An appointment to listen to the silverlines , but i am not so keen on spending that kind of money, As my father in law has already offered me 802D for the same amount. But my budget is 4k below and ill stick with that. Ayon did advise to get speakers in the range of 6-8k and high db of 95 up
where do you reside ERIC i wanna hear your setup ! it sounds splendid! |
@ Facten
spirit 3 came with rca nos 12 au7 and kt 88 goldlion but they are sending me bt 88 as well as they ran out. I was told to swap out the rca nos for another rca nos? i dont know which one, hopefully these are the ones , but im going to put them on the primaluna first as i still have the stock tubes playing on them. all tubes are marked PL dont know what they are?
ALso th ML sources are starting to grow on me, just switching around the rca cables and they change wow! not a joke when ML requires a good front end. |
was advised by jesse brent tubes to try out mullard nos 1950, man they made the highs float all around me! insane |
I decided that an all mallard front and back end was too warm, taking away the crispness and details of the sound. So i now have a mallard front end and rca blackplates for the rear. - shall swap around with clear tops as well for the rear of the spirit 3.
Has anyone tried these wires, the virtue audio nirvana-4m pair with bananas is 234. supposed to be very neutral sounding.
THe problem with me is that i suffer from nostalgia. I bought the limber 4tc and 8tc because 20 years ago, i always thought of them as great. I know the 12tc would be better , but i limit myself to wire prices. I cannot justify the cost for them.
12tc is always sold in a flash when on audiogon!!
So it has always been now and forever 300 MAX for 10ft pair.
Also thank heavens that Ayon has only 8 tubes to roll. So i can actually get the best ones catered to my liking. My other set the PL pre and pwr has an insane amount. 8 each for the per and 8 for the pre.
thank goodness some of them were actually very good tubes or ill be broke ass.
Hey anyone changed the FUSE yet for the spirit 3 ? there is some kind of uber fuse for 50 bucks that makes it sound even better, anyone tried it yet? audioman58 pointed me that way.
As for speakers i still can't help myself but look at Sonus Faber Cremona M ! i just love everything about them.
If Thiels could be run by tubes ill surely get em. 3.7 !! i know , i know poor sound for sure - its nostalgia |
we should just make a new thread for AYON SPIRIT OWNERS
that would be better place to exchange ideas and info about them. anyone? |
thread is up. boy what a game, that pass sealed the colts wow! |
write it up as i dont know where i put my thread at , but it has started already , so meet u at the AYON SITE. |
Have you heard about this speaker the Tekton Pendragon, Full Range 54" tall 16" deep and 12" wide? 98db will make even 300B play loud , i was told by some that this will make the Ayon rock out hard! i am very interested in it as the price tag is so low 2500. |
