03-18-11: Macdude
It looks like a Raysonic. When you spend that much on a player or dac, you're buying the whole package. Just look at the Chord QBD76. It's beautiful.
I've been eyeing the Skylla, and I'd really like to try it out. But couldn't have they put more effort into the entire package when it's selling for $7k (for the Skylla)? ...yes if you want to spend an extra $2-3k for a pretty case. I wouldn't.. |
Well Budt, I am one of those members who, by your forensic comments, might be accused of commenting mostly on Ayon players and little about other gear. But despite your belief members like me are actually Ayon stooges, i'm sorry to say Inspector Javert if I happen to comment on Ayon disproportionately more than other products, it is only because a/ The CD-5/CD-5s are my first truly high end players & b/ I am genuinely stoked with my front end! So if commenting on Ayon threads and (coincidentally) ramping up my own Ayon thread stats is a crime, well i'm happy to be accused... |
03-18-11: Budt
If you read my post you will realize it wasn't directed at you. My apology Budt, I'll get off my goat now! That's water under a bridge, let's get back to audio talk :) |
Mcondan, without wishing to get into personal opinions, I agree with your comments referring the Ayon players overstated superiority are clearly not realistic. In Doug Schroeder's review, he rated the Perfect Wave stack as superior to the CD-2.
Re: the AMR, it is clearly a very good player, though it has a different presentation to the CD-5. The arguement over which is better has been done to death, so I wont go there. In the past i've been guilty of getting caught up in this Ayon hysteria to an extent. Now I simply believe the players I know (CD-5/CD-5s) are excellent players worthy of kudos.
I've only been into high end audio for 3 years, but experience has shown me only very experienced audiophiles, or reviewers should effusely comment on "which is better", otherwise it's best to just comment on general observations or ask specific questions. Just my two cents. |
Budt, I hear what you're saying, and as I mentioned; i've been guilty myself of beating the barrel a bit too loudly that brand (Ayon). I recently bought the latest model CD-5s, but am holding off posting a review until it's played in & i've got something considered to say. I read the comments you were referring to, and they were bizarre, but don't let one bad egg turn you off Ayon gear. |
Agreed Budt! I'm looking forward to borrowing a very good ear I know to help review my CD-5s in the near future & will post a review on AG. I'm a passionate audiophile & don't have time for shills either. Going back to the OP's question, I don't think it's appropriate to describe the CD-2 as a reference player, however I know from talking to Gerhard Hirt the latest model CD-2s included a lot of design improvements, and was brought closer to the CD-5/5s. The main thing is Wig is happy with his purchase...great stuff! |
Jim, don't forget Wig only has the CD-2 (not CD-2s or 5s), and the Berkeley Alpha dac is a very good value high end dac. Robert Harley who is not known for his bs really liked the dac, and it supports formats the Ayon does not (eg: HDCD). Wig, if you like the sound (and i'm not surprised you do); keep enjoying your Berkeley. |
Hi Wig, that's interesting. I'm not surprised you found such a wide difference with the Berkeley dac. Re: the CD-5s, there is a wide performance gap between the CD-2 & 5s. The CD-5s is built around a full Skylla 2 dac and features higher grade caps, an extra power supply with full "bridge" tube rectification and is a higher end proposition overall. Besides, there are ways to improve the player significantly without dropping another $5k on a dac ;) Consider that the CD-5/5s uses 4 x NOS OPA627AP op amps. These were the best op amps 20 years ago, but are only midrange op amps today...and the signal is passing through those things. Also, better output tubes can be sourced. I'll leave the rest to your imagination. |
Budt, look buddy I agree with you questioning the genuiness of Jim's comments and his attitude, but I draw the line at misinformed assumptions about "Made in Austria". Really that has been done to death. Fyi, the Ayon's cases are made in China and Ayon source less critical rectifier tubes from China. My understanding is those are the only Chinese sourced parts.
Of course Ayon (like other Manufacturers source parts from Europe, Japan and elsewhere), though it should be noted Ayon source only the highest grade parts..many exclusively made for Ayon (eg: Kitamura Kiden power supplies), however the player is fully hand assembled in Austria as shown by the country name shown on the rear of the case. If you wish, I can forward you an email from Ayon owner Gerhard Hirt confirming the players are hand-assembled in Austria...pm me your email address if you wish.
If you are still insistant the players are "MADE IN CHINA" as you claim, then really, you're looking like a fool. All anyone has to do is read the Dagogo or 6 moons review and they can easily identify the Ayon's parts come mainly from Europe and Japan and as I stated are then hand-assembled in Ayon's factory in Austria. Believe what you want to believe, intelligent audiophiles are capable of making their own minds up. |
Budt, who said the player is 100% MADE in Austria??? If you re-read my last post, I said the player is fully hand-ASSEMBLED in Austria from parts sourced from Europe, Japan and elsewhere. The issue I have with your previous post is, you are falsely inferring the player is made from mostly, or all Chinese parts which GREATLY devalues the brand and the reputation of Ayon players in most audiophiles opinions. So as an Ayon owner, I don't appreciate your misleading statements. |
Mcondon, reading your previous replies to Ayon CD-2 threads, I can see you are a one-eyed Perfect Wave fan (which is fine) and your replies are usually even handed, however I don't think you should judge ALL Ayon players by one player (ie: the previous model CD-2) since the CD-5/CD-5s are much better sounding players with reference level sound as has been repeated often before. Re: your assertion there are no dealers in the US, that is not correct. USA Tube Audio is the main US Dealer who are also supported by the US distributor as posted on Ayon's website.
What you have to understand is, Ayon are still a young company, therefore of course their dealer network is going to be smaller than say Audio Research for example, so it has nothing to do with with Ayon not wanting to go head to head with other brands as you suggested. The fact is it takes a long time for a new brand to gain wide market acceptance and to be commercially viable for a hifi store to carry. Hope that sheds some light. |
03-29-11: Mcondon
Mlb, Melbguy1, I am not a dealer and have no financial interests in any of Ayon's competitors. My forays into audio amount to a rounding error for me financially. If you read my post history, you will see that I have commented about a wide range of products and have done so deliberately and as honestly as I can. I neither implied nor accused you of being a Dealer. As I said before, I think that people should be able to use the Audiogon forums to gain useful insights about products they are considering buying. Can users rely on the opinions expressed in Ayon threads? I don't think so I don't think you believe that statement. I think you're trying to rubbish all Ayon commentary because of one bad egg...sad. No company wants an immature fraud to speak in its behalf. That is a stretch. If you're going to accuse Jim of being an Ayon stooge, then provide proof rather than speculation. And Jimphd14's disinformation is also a disservice to manufacturers like AMR, Meridian, PS Audio, Berkeley, BAT, and Audio Research, all of which he has implausibly claimed are trounced by Ayon. You're taking this a bit personally don't you think? I don't think AMR, Meridian, PS Audio, Berkeley, BAT, or Audio Research would give a *hoot* about one member's opinion. |
Your experience sounds unusual Nikola, as Ayon products are known for their reliablity. If you were talking about old Audio Research, Levinson or EAR gear, i'd say fair enough. I can only assume that player had been stuffed around with, or a dodgy repair had been done? |
Hi Robster, you've got a nice system there. I never found a cd player at the price point you mentioned which I found either "the Bugatti" of audio or even a high end bargain..I always wanted a better player.
As far as high end bargains go, design and build quality & amazing sound, i've been blown away by the CD-5/5s. The fact you're getting a full Skylla tube dac, high end transport & tube pre-amp done very well for under $12k is amazing. Ayon's lower end players (in fact i'd say up to the CD-2s) though good, don't create any magic for me. The CD-5 certainly did.
I agree, the Ayon players stock can sound a bit bright at times because they are uncompromising & don't use chokes, filters or feedback which detract from the sound, however th |
Robsker, have you heard any of Ayon's top components in a good system to be able to comment with authority? When 6 moons rate the CD-5 close to the Accuphase DP-700 (which is more than twice the price), that strikes me as off the scales cost/performance). Add to that exemplary build quality, components & topology, the ability tube roll & a very good pre-amp thrown in...If that is not off the scales value, i'd hate to see what is! |
Hi Robsker, sorry I did miss your point. One thing to keep in mind with full spread magazing write ups is, the Company being profiled has to pay a lot of money for that (around $10k for a full page ad) the last time I checked & that comes with an understanding they will get a favourable write up, so some of the newer reviewers tend to get carried away.
I tend to think the question of value is relative; Ayon produce a range of products with certain virtues which will appeal to some and not others; from their sonic signature to tube vs ss to even looks and features. Bottom line is; Ayon's top end gear is very very good. As far as this hype goes however, I'll leave you with an old saying Rob "The truth is usually somewhere in the middle". |
Robster, see if you can make the trip to either CES or RMAF in the States as you'll see everything there, though it's not always possible to hear equipment in the most ideal circumstances given the environment at shows. |
