Thanks for the response guys. I appreciate your comments very much. I know I have to audition these. I will not spend money on anything until I hear it. Other responses did clear up some other questions I had. I had a feeling the avr600 wouldn't cut it. Thats why I was thinking of going with a dedicated music setup.
I feel I'm willing to go as far as the Avalon eidolon diamond, or the current sasha w/p. I feel the sophia 3 wasn't as fast in response as the w/p.
I have a local Avalon dealer. The only problem is that he works out of his house. So auditions are done by appointment only. He had a set of Avalon Ascendents in the room, but they were not hooked up. I did however listen to the Magico V3's with a Jeff Rowland Preamp, VAC phi 300.1 tube amp, and MSB cd IV transport. It was a pretty good setup I have to admit. The Magico's just didn't do anything for me. For such a large speaker I was unimpressed with the lack luster base. Transparency and sound stage was very good though. Just overall it didn't win my heart or anything. That speaker goes for $27k+
"Avguy" I will have to agree with you about the analytical sound. I noticed that it can sound a bit metalic in some situations. It doesn't necessarily sound bad, but rather a prefered taste. I don't mind a bit of a forward sounding speaker. I noticed the wilsons are like that at times, as well my paradigm's actually. I noticed they can sound just a little bright at times, and I do mean little. It isn't ever to the point of being intolerable though. Just natural characteristic of the speaker. Its hard finding a speaker that is very natural sounding with superb imaging without getting a little bright.
If I were to predict which I would like better, I think I would probably like the Avalons a little more on the music side. If I were to upgrade my 5ch though, the Wilson's might be the way to go. Wilson's also have center channels which is a plus, and the speakers are really efficient so my avr600 will have no troubles. If I go seperates for my dedicated music setup, I'll look into Jeff Rowland, Simaudio, or Ayre. I love Boulder, but its too rich for my blood. As for cables, I'm currently using a bi-amp pair of Analysis-plus oval 12 for my 60's. Another company I've been wanting to try is xlo electric. If xlo is good enough I would use that for a dedicated 2ch setup. I really don't believe in cables that overall tune the way a system sounds. I really do prefer a cable that has no sonic signature at all. The two companies xlo, and analysis are known for that. I do not like nordost, mit, or transparent audio. They have a sonic characteristic that is unatural to the source in my opinion. Thanks guys keep it up!
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Well said team212, that was the word I was looking for "uninvolving". Thats pretty much how I would describe the Magico's in one word. |
I've heard the Vandersteen 5a's with electrocompaniet seperates. I want to say I liked them, but when I auditioned with a friend I had a bit of a head cold and my hearing was muffled. My friend really liked them. They seem to sound pretty good. I'll have to arrange another listening session over at one of my local dealers. |
Man its really going to be a tough decision just from the sound of these comments. I really like the Wilson's because they are revealing. I like audio that doesn't lie. A speaker that's revealing tends to be the most accurate "to me".
I don't know maybe the Arcam is enough maybe it isn't? Peter Moncrieff did drive seven 802d's with the avr600. The ones he had were the last generation 802d's which were about 2-3db less efficient than the current 802d's. The current Sasha is more efficient than even the new generation 802d's. Now I know the avr600 isn't the best sounding thing in the world, but its still a pretty darn good piece this. It sounds better than Krell, and Rotel to me. Maybe Ayre separates down the road perhaps?
Options are limitless |
I haven't heard the previous versions of the Sasha, but the new one is a great speaker. Its superb with music and movies. It features a new midrange driver that was co-designed with its supplier exclusively with Wilson. Whatever they did does wonders because I really enjoy the Sasha.
Bjesien, I'm very grateful to even own what I have now. So I can't complain. I'm a fairly new audiophile, and I don't want to make mistakes with my purchases. Believe me I'm not anywhere near loaded nor do I make a 6 figure salary. I will agree with you about a budget on source upgrades though. I haven't quite factored that in yet, and I should. I should be doing a budget for everything and not just the pair of speakers.
Elberoth2, that is what I worry about in the Avalon's (dynamics and detail). Those two qualities I would say are extremely important in a listening experience. If it sounds to warm or too lush I do not perceive that as a natural sounding speaker. I don't think those characteristics in sound is a viable solution to my goal. Then again I may hear them, and think differently.
If for whatever reason I decide not to go with the Sasha and/or Avalon's "assuming I like them" I will go with the B&W 802d's. I like the 802d's better than the Sophia 3's personally. The 802d is a really fast speaker. It might even rival the Sasha in speed. Now granted the 802d doesn't quite have the imaging qualities of a Sasha, but the sound quality is similar. One of my local dealers does carry both brands, I should see if I can arrange a side by side comparison.
This is where I feel I'm at right now for potential setups. It's one or the other as I've mentioned before.
-2ch- *est* >$40k
speakers: Sasha or Avalons
source: Jeff Rowland, Ayre Acoustics, Simaudio
cables: Analysis-plus solo crystal oval 8 speaker wire, and solo crystal interconnects / xlo electric
-HT- *est* <$30k
speakers: 802d's/htm2d cen.
source: Avr600, Ayre Acoustics qb-9 dac, or Simaudio 300d dac
cables: Analysis-plus oval 9 speaker wire
I already have a Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2 power conditioner, a Richard Gray 400pro power conditioner, 12ft and 8ft pair of Analysis-plus oval 12 speaker wire, and 9ft Analysis-plus oval 12 bi-wire. For audio source I'm currently using a custom computer I built that fits in my rack connected to my avr600 via digital connection. All the following is in use on my current setup.
I know in the end its really up to me to decide which path I should take, but it is really nice taking all the advice I can get. Thanks guys |
Missioncoonery I perceive the Avalon's sounding as they do from what I was reading on this thread so far. I haven't heard the Avalon's yet, but I will soon. Fyi, for you to discriminate "British hifi" is clearly a fan-boy comment. And yes the new 802d is a fast speaker, and I like how it sounds. Just because you don't doesn't mean you need to criticize. There's a lot of hifi gear I can't stand that other people talk about here on the forums (not this thread in particular), but surely others.
Defride, I know both systems are completely different. One is 2ch, the other is HT. Budget is different because I would have to get a bunch of new gear for a 2ch setup which explains the price gap. The HT setup I would only be upgrading a few things. Plus it would be focused as an all arounder type system so yeah its not gonna be perfect. I would call it the jack of all trades but master at none. It would still be a really great sound system though. |
James63, I appreciate your comments greatly. You were very professional about it. I trust your judgment on the 802d's, but the new ones were improved significantly from what I've heard. I did hear the last gen 802d's, but it was a while ago and I don't remember much from the experience. I have heard the thiel 3.7 in a side by side comparison next to the newest 803d using the same electronics, and I actually liked the 803d better. The biggest selling point for me with the bowers is the diamond tweeters. There's nothing that sounds quite as good as the diamond IMO. The sound is so pure. The Thiel is good, but it doesn't do anything for me. Neither do Magico's especially when you consider the cost for them.
I want the Wilson Sasha really bad, but I would have to get a deal on it. Plus one of my local dealers I'm pretty sure is marking up the price on the Sasha. Its suppose to be msrp of $26900, but from what the salesman told me its $28k. I never pay full retail for my hifi, I always work out some sort of deal.
When I get closer to making a decision on speakers I'll be sure to demo as much as possible. No sense into dropping this sort of money when you're not sure. So far though I'm really feeling the dedicated 2ch route. Thanks again |
I honestly can't comment the Sophia 3 or the Sasha directly to the 802d. Although I heard all three, they were at different times. My situation in hearing them was a little odd as well. I have two dealers I visit, both carry bowers, but the one carries both Bower's and Wilson's. I heard the 802d's at the store that doesn't carry the Wilson's. The electronics involved was a Arcam av888/p777, Arcam bdp-100 transport, and Analysis-plus cables.
As for the Wilson's, I heard them in separate rooms. The Sophia 3's was connected to what looked like Ayre R series mono blocks, Ayre pre-amp, and Ayre cd transport. The Sasha's were in the room next door. The electronics for that was a sony blu-ray transport, Ayre v-5 amp, Meridian surround processor as the dac, and I do not remember what the pre-amp was. Now obviously Sophia 3's had an advantage over the Sasha's electronics which is why I liked the sound better. Even though that was the case I could still pick up the characteristics of the Sasha which was clearly superior. The Sasha is a much tighter speaker. If anything I think the speakers should've switched rooms.
Sorry I couldn't fully answer your question. |
Forgot to put this in my reply James63.
You are right about the full body sound. I like that in a speaker, which is probably why I like the Wilson's so much. The Thiel sounds good to me, but its just a tad bit on the thin side. We all have different frequency responses and taste in sound. |
Well I went back to my local dealer to listen to the 802d's again. I had them pair it to Simaudio moon evolution series electronics. We used a Supernova cd player, Simaudio p7 pre-amp, Simaudio and a w-7 dual mono amp. The cables were balanced analysis-plus solo crystal IC, and Analysis-plus oval-9 speaker wire. The sound was very neutral, and natural sounding. However you guys were right, they weren't quite as fast as I remember or at least thought I remembered. They weren't bi-amped which would help a bit. My experience with bi-amping especially with my paradigms was a big improvement. Thats probably part of the reason why I thought it was a fast speaker. When I first heard them on the Arcam gear it was bi-amped. Either way though they sounded great. We also played the thiel 3.7 on the same gear, and they are really tight speakers. Very natural sounding as well. The Thiels are very well articulated from top to bottom, but I still like the bowers a little better.
Maybe some good news for some of you guys though. One of the employees at the store was recently at the Thiel factory, and apparently they are working on a new flagship called the cs7.5. I'm not sure if you guys knew or not, but I thought I put it out there. |
